Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Matheus S said:

I agree with the Indians' misconceptions, but they really may not interpret it that way. Certainly Indians don't trust Americans, this is more than enough proof that India doesn't feel safe with the US Navy snooping around the Indian Ocean and close to Indian outskirts, that same year, the US got in trouble with the Indians because of an alleged dispute over territory, that is, the Americans are targeted in the Indian strategy, but from what I see, the Indians continue to have as their direction the opinion that China represents the greatest threat in the medium and long term .

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I mean... Who really trust Americans? I'd say not many, given the options. But the thing is, India has no choice but to seek US embrace. The strategic calculus here would be to gain maximum GDP growth from such an embrace with US ( much like China, Japan, SK etc did in the past) and then after extracting the benefits and growing large enough, slowly rise to dominate/ pursue its interests. Do you see a parallel here with China? Because Indians have seen and studies China's path.
US is not some magical wealth generating machine. What India really hedging its bets on is its conviction that US led monetary/financial/global governance will reign supreme for the next fifty years. No one can fault that, especially when India itself will strengthen that system by becoming an active player.

( I have deviated from the Thread topic a bit. Anyway...)

India seeks a sphere of influence (much like China). India seeks to utilize the US vs China confrontation to extract the GDP growth it needs and then display the strength. Yes, you are right. India indeed considers China as the biggest threat and it has designs for the entire region ( which I don't think will end up good for a lot of people going by what Jingoistic Indians discuss).

If India replaced China and became the new superpower, it would be considered the No. 1 enemy by the United States, like the former Soviet Union and China.

The United States inherited all British foreign policy.Unite with other countries on the European continent and attack the most powerful country on the European continent.He will attack whoever is the second most powerful country.When Germany became strong, he allied himself with France and other countries to fight Germany.When France was strong, he allied himself with other countries to make an alliance against France.It's the same strategy in the United States, from the Soviet Union and Japan all the way to China.

- Xuxu1457-​

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Today DRDO conducted the maiden test fire of PRALAY a quasi ballistic missile with a max range of 500 km & max warhead weight of 1 ton

India does not have a ABM/BMD.

China has HQ-19, HQ-26, HQ-29, SC-19 and so on as ABM/BMD. Just because the Chinese state does not officially call itself a BMD/ABM power does not mean they do not field ABM/BMD. It has been a BMD/ABM power since the 1970s when it built dedicated missile interceptors.

India is no more qualifying as an official BMD power even though I'm certain it has BMD missiles. For one thing India's ASAT shows it has all the abilities to perform BMD. Producing better BMD in numbers is the challenge. China has done this in the 1970s with two separate known programs. This is decades before Israel and India. India's current mystery BMD is much less likely to exist compared to China's. At least for China's ABM systems, we have semi official admission and official declarations of some tests. In fact only China has been successfully intercepting "special" (read hypersonic glide) targets in recent years.

As for HGV and ballistic missiles? India's programs suggest they intend to develop ASBM and HGV. They are roughly 20 years away from service if we take China's development path and timeline as some indication. By 2007, China was already firing advanced MaRV ASBM as tests. India still only intends to run preliminary tests of their eventual ASBM.

HGV depends on whether they can do breakthroughs but they are running without supercomputers or hypersonic wind tunnels. It took China at least 20 years to field HGVs with all those tools and much more funding. India at the moment has none of the tools required, a fraction of the funding, and has not done a single HGV test. The scramjet test was not a glider and lasted a full claimed 20 seconds before who knows what happened but all the observers ignored it and were bored by it to not even mention.

The proof of all this? Well China disclosed it has fielded HGVs since 2019 and the US admit they observed "hundreds" of Chinese HGV test flights with every single reported one having been successful, extremely long ranged flights, and maneuvering (gliding). Everyone only says India "tested" one hypersonic program but it is extremely preliminary it is no more than a feasibility study of the engine on a well scaled down model. We will see that India will not induct a HGV for a while yet as they continue with development because they would require decades more AFTER developing all the necessary tools. I would wager that Turkey, Israel, France, UK, Japan, and South Korea could develop and induct HGV before India since all those nations have the same if not better starting conditions and tools available.

The rest is pure India hype. Talk about stuff decades before they even have REAL prototypes being tested and refined. Jai Hinds talk 20 years before induction and 10 years before real prototypes but they use CGI and powerpoint slides of "we will have" to proclaim they already have. China is evidently the opposite. When it shows it, or information become so public, it has been doing it for AGES. Wait until any nation's Four Star General mentions that India "has performed hundreds of hypersonic flights" and then we can begin talking about it.

From above:



This is just one revealed ABM system of China's from the 1960s. FJ program. Check out the link for a bit more info. Available info in Chinese is a whole lot deeper.



This isn't to insult the Indians. They are clearly set on programs to deliver these weapons eventually - ASBM and HGVs. It is just that some fanboys online do talk pure vaporware up. Agni Prime intends to eventually reach a point of developing into a ASBM. India has not got a single HALE drone or known program for it and with Indian military programs, the entire thing is on paper and available to be known by everyone decades before anything gets tested/delivered. Agni Prime is India's most advanced missile and it is also why Indians immediately talk it up so much. It looks like a poorly build DF-3 missile but Indians are talking like it is better than a DF-21. It is a DF-26 ranged IRBM with nowhere near the level of sophistication. I mean that much is already evident from observing the build and then taking a look at where each electronics, communications, and space technologies are truly at. For Agni Prime to get to DF-21D levels of ASBM, they still need to put up entire constellations of special purpose satellites and develop at least one HALE drone. Fins on a warhead doesn't mean much if we're asking how capable it is at actually being a ASBM without any of the sensor networks, guidance and comms support.

There has not been a single secretive Indian military program that was proven to have been hidden until it was ready or in service. Examples of some include F-117, B-2, SR-71 for American ones and DF-ZF, DF-21, DF-26, JL-3, DF-100, J-20, hypersonic aircraft recently revealed by China's gov and verified by the US to have flown.

India always announces everything before they really even begin looking at whether or not they can or should do something. It is done to make their bhakts beat their chests with pride and make their government look like they are amongst the big league. We should simply consider what is said, who said it, exactly what it has or hasn't done and planning to do.

ougoah said:

The rest is pure India hype. Talk about stuff decades before they even have REAL prototypes being tested and refined. Jai Hinds talk 20 years before induction and 10 years before real prototypes but they use CGI and powerpoint slides of "we will have" to proclaim they already have. China is evidently the opposite. When it shows it, or information become so public, it has been doing it for AGES. Wait until any nation's Four Star General mentions that India "has performed hundreds of hypersonic flights" and then we can begin talking about it.

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the PPT engineering sickness has infested elsewhere too, with many 'tech' companies engaging in , and ... .

FairAndUnbiased said:

the PPT engineering sickness has infested elsewhere too, with many 'tech' companies engaging in

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They have a next level sort of "me-too" attitude. Every single one that even delivered something decades late we should add, has been so underwhelming. Tejas, Arjun, the reverse engineering programs also so late while fruitful (to a point) that the systems delivered eventually are two generations old by the time they reach service e.g. removing ramjets and converting Akash missiles to rocket only. Various sub, destroyer, and frigate programs based off much more obsolete stuff by now. Rather than going on that journey as learning, the thing itself is the end goal and even getting there for them have been hit and miss as in some programs eventually abandoned because they were simply stretched too long and getting expensive. Kaveri also ended up in failure and converted to becoming simply buying M88 from France and calling the French developed, French built, French delivered M88 as Kaveri.

It's fine if it weren't for Indians being super bellicose about politics and military matters, combined with Indian "confidence" and exceptional denial of the ability and achievement of others while exaggerating their own nothings into the "game changers" for every single powerpoint slide they create. For every Agni Prime chest thump, they forget how many times the Agni program failed in already infrequent tests and how the Agni missile itself is basically a 1970s level ballistic missile. They seem to have included some steerability to the warhead though and that indicates desire to at least talk talk talk about how great they are without showing and proving a single time. The only impressive Indian military capability shown in the entire 2 decades has been the ASAT test. ASBM is basically like that except going from space down to earthly target. The problem there is the same problem the western powers expressed doubt that China managed to pull this off (before they finally realised and admitted that China could do it and pulled it off with quite an ingenious system of sensors).

How can India spot a carrier without those secretive satellite and HALE tech that US and China say (and show) only they possess? Where is India's WZ-7 or WZ-8? How can India guide those MaRVs without domestic communications tech that are at those levels of competence ... China did 5G and now experimenting with 6G comms tech and did sensor node integration before Indians bought some basics from Israel. Even after they develop all the hardware, they will need years of trial and error to refine the actual weapon itself and test it. Then they will need to build dozens if not hundreds. Meanwhile India is sliding in GINI, one of the few countries increasing in poverty, and one of the few countries that is getting shorter on average with widespread social decay and economic mismanagement. They ignore their own problems 24/7 because they make up and exaggerate problems for China 24/7.

India imposes Penalty on MBDA after Dassault for failing "Offsets".

The defence ministry has imposed a penalty of up to a million euros on European weapons maker MBDA for delay in meeting its offset obligations under the ₹59,000 crore for 36 fighter jets made by Dassault Aviation, media reports said on Wednesday.

The defence ministry has collected the fine, from MBDA, linked to missile maker’s offset commitments during September 2019-2020, news agency PTI reported citing unnamed people , adding that the European firm lodged its protest while coughing up the penalty.

HT reached out to the defence ministry and MBDA but neither confirmed or commented on the matter.

that in all capital purchases above ₹300 crore, the foreign vendor has to invest at least 30% of the value of the purchase in the country to boost indigenous capabilities. In the case of the 2016 Rafale deal, this was 50%.

The MBDA weapons on the Indian Rafales are the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, MICA multi-mission air-to-air missiles and Scalp deep-strike cruise missiles. In a report tabled in Parliament in September 2020, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) had made critical observations after a scrutiny of the status of a raft of offset contracts — including the September 2016 Rafale deal — signed between 2005 and 2018.

The country’s top auditor said that Dassault Aviation and MBDA had not confirmed the transfer of technology (ToT) to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), an integral part of the contract.
The induction of Rafale jets is expected to be completed by February 2022, with 32 of the 36 ordered already delivered to the Indian Air Force.

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The French were never really going to do all that for such little sums. What western nations (and India) says and what they are capable of and what they end up doing are often not only at odds with each other but also frequently contradictory. I'm surprised the wider global population haven't already accepted how the leaders there (corporate as well as political) behave since we've had over 50 years of the same old.

ougoah said:

Kaveri also ended up in failure and converted to becoming simply buying M88 from France and calling the French developed, French built, French delivered M88 as Kaveri.

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Kaveri is a failure as of now. The French haven't even helped them with M88.

1. By 2017 ( I don't know the exact dates), the French studied the Kaveri program and helped Indians with reducing engine issues like noise,vibrations etc. Do note that no support was given to improve the core ( High Pressure stages, Turbines) of the engine.

2. Later, Safran promised to support India with Kaveri ( as part of Rafale deal?) on the core but as the Rafale deal got through, Safran came back and told India that it'd offer its M88 core for the Kaveri engine ( Not a tech transfer/ tech infusion but just a replacement of Kaveri core with M88 for a sticker price).

3. Safran is quoting what seems to be a really high price (2 billion and more) for M88 core technology to the indians. I read that this technology itself is outdated ( early M88 with performance similar to what Kaveri sets as goal). And that's not confirmed and could be just wishes and dreams.