Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

sndef888 · Sep 10, 2021

It is not a good idea to underestimate India even if their armed forces are weaker than China in all aspects.

They do have an ace up their sleeve which is their control of the Andamans.

The amount of economic damage to China if a blockade is launched is not worth it even though China will destroy the Indian armed forces and its economy.

ZeEa5KPul · Sep 10, 2021

sndef888 said:
They do have an ace up their sleeve which is their control of the Andamans.

If the balloon goes up they're not going to have control of the Andamans. And it's always worth it to expand territory, especially islands far from home.

Gloire_bb said:
Can Indian economy support a sufficient ratio to exploit its inherent geographical+home ground advantage over China?

Whatever geographical advantage India has will be negated by PLAN basing in Pakistan and Myanmar. That there haven't even been political gestures by China to those countries about that indicates how little China thinks of India, and rightly so.

ougoah · Sep 10, 2021

sndef888 said:
It is not a good idea to underestimate India even if their armed forces are weaker than China in all aspects.

They do have an ace up their sleeve which is their control of the Andamans.

The amount of economic damage to China if a blockade is launched is not worth it even though China will destroy the Indian armed forces and its economy.

Destroying the armed forces would automatically place the idea of India controlling the Andamans completely out of reality.

India has no right and no ability to control international trade routes. China itself does not and never even suggested such a ridiculous thing even in waters it has extremely tight control over. It would be illegal and not only be damaging to China's economy. Has China ever considered blocking everyone else's trade apart from its own in SCS? No. Even if it were to administer the entire field of islands there and control everything within the 9 dash line, they would not overstep such a stupidly obvious red line.

Although this is a common fantasy of some Indians, India can no more control trade flowing through Andamans than I could control what colour cars pass through the road in front of my workplace. It isn't up to India like it isn't up to me.

India has no military power to block merchant ships. Let's forget for a second that such an action from India would be met with harsh responses not only from China. In reality, no military tools even need to be used. The threat of engagement would be enough alone if Indian leaders were somehow more stupid than most attribute to even consider carrying out such a thing. If China were to cut off US trade ships from accessing their destinations and the US, it would be justifiable war and such a thing would be unthinkable for China to even consider.

Basically if India ever tried to cut off the Malacca strait, China would sink two out of two of their carriers from the comfort of a few AshBM launches from southern central China. Within hours, the Indians would understand the foolishness of such an idea. It is unthinkable. Of course it remains in the imagination of Jai Hinds as a viable option they have. Something they keep telling themselves but know they cannot carry it out and as long as it's only talked about as something they can do, they will never need to try it and find out as long as it remains an Indian wetdream.

ZeEa5KPul · Sep 10, 2021

ougoah said:
Destroying the armed forces would automatically place the idea of India controlling the Andamans completely out of reality.

India has no right and no ability to control international trade routes. China itself does not and never even suggested such a ridiculous thing even in waters it has extremely tight control over. It would be illegal and not only be damaging to China's economy. Has China ever considered blocking everyone else's trade apart from its own in SCS? No. Even if it were to administer the entire field of islands there and control everything within the 9 dash line, they would not overstep such a stupidly obvious red line.

Although this is a common fantasy of some Indians, India can no more control trade flowing through Andamans than I could control what colour cars pass through the road in front of my workplace. It isn't up to India like it isn't up to me.

India has no military power to block merchant ships. Let's forget for a second that such an action from India would be met with harsh responses not only from China. In reality, no military tools even need to be used. The threat of engagement would be enough alone if Indian leaders were somehow more stupid than most attribute to even consider carrying out such a thing. If China were to cut off US trade ships from accessing their destinations and the US, it would be justifiable war and such a thing would be unthinkable for China to even consider.

Basically if India ever tried to cut off the Malacca strait, China would sink two out of two of their carriers from the comfort of a few AshBM launches from southern central China. Within hours, the Indians would understand the foolishness of such an idea. It is unthinkable. Of course it remains in the imagination of Jai Hinds as a viable option they have. Something they keep telling themselves but know they cannot carry it out and as long as it's only talked about as something they can do, they will never need to try it and find out as long as it remains an Indian wetdream.

Don't underestimate India! We have to take it super serial now because its procurement is 95% joke whereas it used to be 100% joke.

ougoah · Sep 10, 2021

India has 6 Talwar Classes, 3 Shivalik Classes, and 3 Kolkata Classes.

India has 0 Nilgiri Classes and 1 Visakhapatnam Class. The only one that's actually completed -D66, is undergoing sea trial but let's count that.

It has one midget carrier with a wing of what is essentially 1990s tech fighters and overall is not even as effective as the trainer carrier CV-16.

Long range naval weapons? Not a single usable HGV weapon or AshBM and years if not decades away from fielding any.

Air defence of the entire modern fleet of Indian navy is 96 total Barak-1 from all Shivaliks, 96 total Barak-8 from all Kolkatas, and 144 total naval Buks from all Talwars.

The three Type 055s in service alone have more AD capability with 342 HHQ-9B if all VLS used. Not to mention Barak-1 and Shtils are entirely different levels of missiles. Even the Mach 2.5 Barak-8 isn't really the best in the 150km range class.

This navy wants to go to war by unilaterally cutting a global shipping route and wants to play imperialist gunboat diplomacy because its old abusers are inviting them the lowest seat in their club?

India truly showing its colours when its Hindutva gov mouthpieces in media keep publicly announcing their "option" of cutting Malacca Strait and glorifying themselves for sending a few warships to SCS. Like the old Chinese leaders suspected, there is a lot going on in Indian politics and none of it will ever be to the betterment of this region or China.

ougoah · Sep 10, 2021

ZeEa5KPul said:
Don't underestimate India! We have to take it super serial now because its procurement is 95% joke whereas it used to be 100% joke.

The 5% comes in the form of Brahmos. They believe Brahmos is the one word solution to every military problem. Well it also used to be Su-30MKI and now it's Brahmos II and Rafale.

India's navy today is about as capable as China's was in the 1990s. Pure brown water stuff but the amount of chest thumping from the Indians everywhere on the internet is comical. Western observers ignore, encourage, and laugh at (behind their backs) that sort of stuff but they aren't the ones being engaged. In any case. What India has now is very pathetic. The only semi-decent material they have are those Israeli missiles and AESAs on board a whopping 3 boats. This manlet wants to project power and enforce trade blockades not even superpowers have dared to do in the past on lower military adversaries.

India is that bully victim being offered a role in the group of bullies. Now it relishes a chance to do to others as its tormentors have done to it. Read some chauvinistic indian comments and one will see they dream of committing sexual violence on "dominated" races and nations. They dream of causing pain and misery and delight in the suffering of others (they've celebrated Chinese natural disasters and the Pakistani flight that crashed just as two small examples). Pure filth and repugnance.

So like I said, Indian leaders are showing India's true colours. It's that scrawny manlet that is happy to be invited into the club of tormentors and desiring acceptance. Little do the Bkakts know that these are all positions of convenience and disappear like a fart in the wind when conditions change.

China must remain vigilant in the face of such nations. Their leaders have successfully brainwashed most of their people (I mean just look at RSS saluting seig heil India). India should just be let it rot on its own, both body and soul.

Gloire_bb · Sep 10, 2021

ZeEa5KPul said:
Whatever geographical advantage India has will be negated by PLAN basing in Pakistan and Myanmar.

Please elaborate how do you see it working.

ZeEa5KPul said:
That there haven't even been political gestures by China to those countries about that indicates how little China thinks of India, and rightly so.

Yep, it was noticed last year. One side is outright blinded by the prevailing political agenda, another is too arrogant to care. Nothing to be proud about.

ZeEa5KPul said:
If the balloon goes up they're not going to have control of the Andamans.

They are already a union territory, fully militarized et ca.
They aren't going anywhere unless you can force them out physically.

ZeEa5KPul · Sep 10, 2021

Gloire_bb said:
Please elaborate how do you see it working.

Well, it starts with steamrollers flattening a region near a coastline. Then the area is paved, foundations for buildings are dug, cement is poured, etc. I'm not familiar with construction, but that's a rough idea.

Gloire_bb said:
They aren't going anywhere unless you can force them out physically.

The last horse finally crosses the finish line. If a blockade is imposed, a blockade is smashed and territory taken. And not just a few islands.

Gloire_bb · Sep 10, 2021

ougoah said:
The three Type 055s in service alone have more AD capability with 342 HHQ-9B if all VLS used. Not to mention Barak-1 and Shtils are entirely different levels of missiles. Even the Mach 2.5 Barak-8 isn't really the best in the 150km range class.

Idea is to win the war by firing SAMs? Well, this is not how naval fighting works.
It never worked this way to begin with.

ougoah said:
Long range naval weapons? Not a single usable HGV weapon or AshBM and years if not decades away from fielding any.

So is USN - and, so far, PLAN warships themselves. The only actual ship-based hypersonics are Russian, and even they aren't in service yet.

ougoah said:
This navy wants to go to war by unilaterally cutting a global shipping route and wants to play imperialist gunboat diplomacy because its old abusers are inviting them the lowest seat in their club?

That navy can do it simply because all SLOCs connecting the better half of the world with China come right next to them. And it's technically impossible to rerout them anywhere. As if it's not enough - access to the Indian ocean from the East is bottled into several vulnerable chokepoints and involves inconvenient, stretched, and vulnerable (if we're taking other straits) logistical leg.

ougoah · Sep 10, 2021

Gloire_bb said:
Idea is to win the war by firing SAMs? Well, this is not how naval fighting works.
It never worked this way to begin with.

So is USN - and, so far, PLAN warships themselves. The only actual ship-based hypersonics are Russian, and even they aren't in service yet.

That navy can do it simply because all SLOCs connecting the better half of the world with China come right next to them. And it's technically impossible to rerout them anywhere. As if it's not enough - access to the Indian ocean from the East is bottled into several vulnerable chokepoints and involves inconvenient, stretched, and vulnerable (if we're taking other straits) logistical leg.

Not at all. It was a single point of comparison to show where India's navy capability actually stands.

Russian ones are supposedly in service since they have been allegedly firing Zircons from ships. Again the point was to say India has no long range weapons they can use from the coast. Chinese AshBM and HGVs can reach Andamans from China. You're missing the point. India has no ability to protect itself from even Chinese land based attacks on Indian ships in the Indian Ocean. It has no equivalent in service and not even in testing. Their supposed Hypersonic test from last year barely lasted 20 seconds and how much of that was just rocket booster counted as "flight" on its laptop sized model of a vehicle. Anyway observers have noted their current abilities.

I would really honestly love it if the Indians actually tried what you're suggesting. They won't try because it doesn't work. There are no chokepoints they can expect to exploit with 6 modern warships and nothing of substance behind it.

Think about it this way, if the Indians blocked the Malacca strait and set up greater naval presence in Andamans, and all this while somehow it doesn't effect any other nation except for China and it is in an isolated scenario, do you think China would do nothing? Has China got no ability to destroy the Indian navy? I would say AshBM and HGVs alone sinking a few IN ships would be enough to wake the Indians up.

Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

sndef888

Senior Member

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel

ougoah

Brigadier

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel

ougoah

Brigadier

ougoah

Brigadier

Gloire_bb

Captain

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel

Gloire_bb

Captain

ougoah

Brigadier