Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Janiz

Senior Member
Sorry but I don't buy this story. Paint job is the most fundamental of a product to be delivered.
What? And why is anyone comapring an old paint job against freshly painted in low visability color scheme one? Why are you posting images from some random guys from the Internet forums here? If informations on this forum should be helpful it should come from some verified sources, best with the author's name under it. Please, stop posting those Pakistanian insecure sour grapes here.
NEW OR USED?

Western countries are hoodwinking developing countries with overpriced weapons systems. This is the paint job on a supposedly brand new French Dassault Rafale fighter for the Indian Air Force on their arrival in India. Each aircraft has been sold by France to India at a package price of $242 million. The other theory is that this first batch of 5 Rafales for India are second-hand ex-French Air Force aircraft.


View attachment 62182
I think that this question should be answered in accordance to Bettridge's law of headlines.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Indian Air Force is set to acquire 21 'surplus' Mig-29 air frames from Russia to revive a new squadron. However, the issues of poor maintainance and questionable quality controls are still persistent in IAF. These issues have primarily contributed to the 'achievement' of high crash rate of every fighter aircraft type within IAF.
Known as the "Falcon Hunter" in IAF for some unreasonable reasons, The following infograph shows the crashes of IAF Mig-29 Fulcrum to this date.

Note: Indian Navy Mig-29K not included in the list.

From its inception till the early 2000s, PAF F-16s did not have BVR capabilities whereas the Mig-29s did. Maybe that's why they called it Falcon Hunter?
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Still a ton of scaffolding on the island, so doesn't look anywhere finished to me. It's not just missing radar etc. At least they made some progress, but definitely at half the rate if not less than that sign.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
The Rafale Factor & Options for PAF

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Click the link above to read detail article
The article isn't the best. It isn't detailed either. Pakistan's answer to any and all Indian acquisition seem to be JF-17 Block 3. That in itself isnt assuring for Pakistan.

While Pakistan doesn't have any other option (due to technological and financial constraints) it would be wise to create a technological base with Assistance from Turkey and other countries (maybe with some string pulling by China and Turkey).

Short term, one can only hope to improve the EW, Sensor suite aboard JF-17 and hope that AWACS-JF17 combo along with F-16 deters India from any adventures.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
The article isn't the best. It isn't detailed either. Pakistan's answer to any and all Indian acquisition seem to be JF-17 Block 3. That in itself isnt assuring for Pakistan.

While Pakistan doesn't have any other option (due to technological and financial constraints) it would be wise to create a technological base with Assistance from Turkey and other countries (maybe with some string pulling by China and Turkey).

Short term, one can only hope to improve the EW, Sensor suite aboard JF-17 and hope that AWACS-JF17 combo along with F-16 deters India from any adventures.

To be quite honest, all that may even be enough to deter India because even with 36 Rafales working well with the rest of IAF, the PAF isn't that far behind. The numbers was an issue and the low cost barriers for JF-17 helped offset the differences better than any other option PAF had. The biggest worry for PAF has been and still is the quantitative gap. While the JF-17 helps/helped, the IAF is still much better funded and has more MKIs than the PAF has JF-17s. What PAF has and is able to use may still be enough to counter the IAF effectively.

2019 showed the IAF's MKI and its numbers superiority did not translate into a decisive victory. The MKI and its missiles were not devastatingly effective at all and the IAF was slow and chaotic in its reaction. They may not stay dormant so the PAF shouldn't either but one is busy spending money it doesn't have on foreign imports with no hope of ever assimilating or making use of those imported technologies or even upgrading them without spending more fortunes, the other has proven resourceful with what it has and frugally weighing up options presumably with the support and interest of China to secure its ability to counter the Indians.

One can be assured that Pakistan and China are communicating and sharing plans. Long term acquisition most likely will involve J-35s for PAF, well before India gets its hands on a Russian, American, Asian or European 5th gen fighter. I'm not going to consider the AMCA, a 2D project until well after the 2030s. Flying prototype before 2030 my ass. They still haven't completed their carrier or their MK>1 Tejas or their Visak destroyer for years and years and years on the production lines and decades on paper. How is this to change while Indian industry is rapidly falling behind relative to the ones accelerating? If anything a 5th gen challenge will take even longer. Rafale induction really doesn't need to be sending the PAF into some blind spending spree or rush to "achieve parity" but they're free to do as they see fit.

JF-17 block 3 with AESA and PL-15 (assuming this gets integrated) will be quite the balance if the PAF manage to induct more than the IAF get Rafales within a similar time frame.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
To be quite honest, all that may even be enough to deter India because even with 36 Rafales working well with the rest of IAF, the PAF isn't that far behind. The numbers was an issue and the low cost barriers for JF-17 helped offset the differences better than any other option PAF had. The biggest worry for PAF has been and still is the quantitative gap. While the JF-17 helps/helped, the IAF is still much better funded and has more MKIs than the PAF has JF-17s. What PAF has and is able to use may still be enough to counter the IAF effectively.

2019 showed the IAF's MKI and its numbers superiority did not translate into a decisive victory. The MKI and its missiles were not devastatingly effective at all and the IAF was slow and chaotic in its reaction. They may not stay dormant so the PAF shouldn't either but one is busy spending money it doesn't have on foreign imports with no hope of ever assimilating or making use of those imported technologies or even upgrading them without spending more fortunes, the other has proven resourceful with what it has and frugally weighing up options presumably with the support and interest of China to secure its ability to counter the Indians.

One can be assured that Pakistan and China are communicating and sharing plans. Long term acquisition most likely will involve J-35s for PAF, well before India gets its hands on a Russian, American, Asian or European 5th gen fighter. I'm not going to consider the AMCA, a 2D project until well after the 2030s. Flying prototype before 2030 my ass. They still haven't completed their carrier or their MK>1 Tejas or their Visak destroyer for years and years and years on the production lines and decades on paper. How is this to change while Indian industry is rapidly falling behind relative to the ones accelerating? If anything a 5th gen challenge will take even longer. Rafale induction really doesn't need to be sending the PAF into some blind spending spree or rush to "achieve parity" but they're free to do as they see fit.

JF-17 block 3 with AESA and PL-15 (assuming this gets integrated) will be quite the balance if the PAF manage to induct more than the IAF get Rafales within a similar time frame.
While many still thinks J-35 sale to pak is a possibility, I don't.

1. Pakistan doesn't have the technological or financial base to maintain and service a fifth gen fighter ( if J-35 indeed is a fifth gen with advanced RAM coatings and sensor fusion rather than a 4.5 gen aircraft with stealth shaping ).

2. Pakistan isn't safe for Chinese technological base. There is a threat of espionage from Pakistani establishment by Indian spies. I suspect that this is one of the reason that led China to never adopt JF-17. We may not know if China indeed supplies Pakistan with technology that it itself uses. China is one of the countries who has experience with Soviet Monkey weapons. China would know better. That's all I'm going to say regarding this. War is war.

J-35 , if truly a 5th gen , won't reach Pakistani hands because of this.

3. Lets see where Turkish TAI fighter goes. Even though Pakistan won't be able to buy it ( Pakistan's position would be similar to Indonesia's position with South Korea KAI fx ) Pakistan would be able to acquire some technology developed by Turkish MiC.

4. A pakistani AZM fighter ( based on Chinese J35 or Turkish TAI fighter) is more realistic than an off the shelf purchase of chinese technology.
 

advill

Junior Member
India will not fight on its own. It will probably join the QUAD (US, Japan & Australia) to deter aggression In the Indian Ocean.
 
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