Has Astra got support from Israelis? Python or Derby program perhaps? I think we could Guage the performance and technological quality from that information.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
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They haven't said. If it does, they wouldn't say, but if it doesn't they'd probably be claiming it as 100% domestic so from what Indian sources are saying, it's probably indigenous with minimal foreign involvement if any.
Very unlikely that India accomplishes it. I am not saying because of some prejudices against a nation BUT i think India's track record across many military projects aren't enviable and points to one major fault - lack of comprehensive Industrial Capability. Astra is a new AAM whose specifications as listed by India are quite competitive. India would require some level of assistance ( or advices atleast) to make the initial venture a success.
This piece was in published in Dec 2016.
In conflict with claims that India's 40-kilometer-range Astra Mark-1 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) is indigenous, the Indian Air Force (IAF) says it will forever be dependent on Russia for the missile's critical technologies.
The IAF says the missile's developer, state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), simply cannot produce it fully in-house.
"The missile seeker (main part for guidance) is based on Russian R-77 radar seeker in Astra Mark-1, and the homemade seeker has not been developed," according to a senior IAF official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The seeker helps in firing the missile from beyond visual range, tracking and then locking onto the target, the IAF official explained. It also provides the capability to follow its target despite complicated maneuvers, the official added.
"Astra missile is unlikely to be fully indigenous, as critical components like active sensor and proximity fuses would have to be imported as of now," said Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.
Brumby
Major
IMO, effectiveness of long range missiles are overrated. It might add complexity and added consideration in your adversary's planning but its effect in my view is limited to deterrence rather than serious PK. The main issue is sensor range which is normally truncated by capable ECM. A rule of thumb is half of advertised range is where the kill zone is more likely to take place because effective ECM objective is to half the sensor distance for lock on.
In the Feb incident the AIM-120C was launched at the edge of its effective range but it was sufficient to deter India's SU-30MKI by it having to take evasive action to break the lock. This is highly problematic in my view because the SU-30MKI is India's premier OCA platform. The fact that the PAF's F-16 Block 52 which is mated to an APG-68 (non AESA) operating at its outer effective range is able to lock onto the SU-30MKI would suggest to me that its ECM suite is rather weak. India needs the super Sukhoi that Russia has been promising. A few Rafales and meteors will not solve its overall equipment quality issue. .
There is too much emphasis on super maneuverability, TVC and WVR. Modern air combat is about SA If you don't survive long enough to the merge, those attributes don't matter. In Lockheed Marin's projected study of modern air combat, 93 % are expected to be BVR. Just refer to the statistics from Falcon Strike 2015. The Thais dominated in BVR because of superior SA.
Outside of the ECM issue I'm not aware of anything else that's in the way of extending missile range like the Meteor has done and presumably successfully so. As long as you give your missile enough energy and spoof proof it, what else will harm its PK? PL-15 apparently has terminal phase boost to give it more energy to help defeat evasive attempts. Modern missiles will probably all go this route if not use propulsion setups similar to Meteor's. So far it seems Meteor's range is the limit when we consider radar and ECM factors. I think the very fact that PL-21/PL-xx and Meteor are around, proves "long range" missiles are effective enough. Maybe for Chinese long range missiles are more an attempt at targeting AWACs and tankers but we've seen all the main players double their 90s MRAAM range.
Many Rafales and Meteors will solve their capability gap. Super MKI with R-37 and newer Russian missiles are going to dominate PAF. During this time, PAF only has block 3 JF-17 on the horizon and if AZM fails, they've got nothing. I don't believe India will manage to create a successful AMCA until it's obsolete or not competitive when inducted but Rafale with Super MKI is formidable for air superiority. What they seem to lack in is every other department and proper force integration. If Pakistan managed to use what it currently has to absolutely confuse and stifle any IAF response when they were attacking Indian territory, it says a lot about Indian organisation and situational awareness.
Brumby
Major
Historical range extension of air to air missiles were a concurrent corresponding development of sensor improvement (at least it was with the US). Long range missiles without guidance are basically dumb missiles. How the Chinese are able to effectively use PL-15 or PL-21 is beyond my ability to comprehend - at least not according to their rumored range. I have not been able to establish the credibility of the source as to what constitute the underlying facts that support the rumored number. The reason is a missile launch from a supersonic platform as opposed to subsonic has a 30 % greater range. The flight profile of a launch between an optimal high-high configuration vs a low low configuration can be as much double the range. The point is given the lack of details on the rumored range, any conversation regarding different scenarios on how it can be used is rather meaningless because the potential effective range can be a significant variable.
The fact that the PL-21/PL-XX is being developed doesn't prove the concept is effective - just that the Chinese believe in the concept. Proof is in the tangible demonstration of the concept under realistic conditions. What sensor does the Chinese plan to use that can guide the missile to that rumored distance? Maintaining a radar lock at long range sufficient for the missile to travel the distance is not simple because the other end will react to break that lock (assuming that you can even get a lock from that distance to begin with). The PK for long range missiles is unknown and highly questionable given the distance. We are talking about uncharted territory. However at distance, jamming has the advantage. This is because the radar return is proportional to 1/R 4 since it must travel to the target and return to the host radar. The jamming signal only travels in one direction, and is thus proportional to 1/R 2.
What ever you are referring to is yet to happen and would not be in the numbers to be meaningful for sometime. We shall see. The PAF to its credit has been able to get more out of its limited resources.
likely India did after all India has a very advance defence industry...here totally indigenous seeker of Astra for you
.missile range would be further increased & a small batch has already been ordered.
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