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HMS Astute

Junior Member
France says Dassault's $15bn Rafale India deal needs more negotiations

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France said Friday that its bid to sell 126 Rafale combat jets to India, worth $15bn, will require more negotiations between Paris and New Delhi.French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, speaking to BFM-TV, said there was no chance of striking a deal before the end of the year.

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aksha

Captain
LCA Navy all set for ski-jump trials at SBTF Goa

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Bengaluru, Dec 8: Scripting a new chapter in India's naval aviation history, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Naval Prototype-1 (NP-1) is all set to undertake critical trials at INS Hansa in Goa for the first time. Sources confirm to OneIndia that the NP-1 undertook ‘extensive pre-requisite flying' at HAL Airport in Bengaluru ahead of its expected ferry to Goa soon. "The aircraft is in a good shape now. In the last two weeks alone, we did five flights. Specified speed, Mach No, altitude, Angle of Attack, undercarriage operations and ground accelerations all have been tested and found satisfactory," an official said.
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The NP-1 (trainer variant) was rolled out with great fanfare on July 6, 2010 and the aircraft had its maiden flight on April 27, 2012. As on December 6, 2014, the platform could only achieve 29 flights.

NP-1 to perform a challenging task at SBTF


An advance team of experts has already landed at Goa ahead of the NP-1 campaign at INS Hansa. "Modifications on the NP-1 have already done for the ski-jump activities. Ski-jump is a technologically-challenging task achieved by India. Only very few countries (US and Ukraine among known nations) can boast of a facility like SBTF," the official said.

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The SBTF is currently regularly used by the MiG 29Ks, before their operations onboard INS Vikramaditya. "The MiG 29Ks have been undertaking ski-jump and arrester hook landing for some time now. The LCA Navy will be doing only ski-jumps now. We will have two-week preparation time ahead of the first mission," the official added. The NP-1 will be ferried (flown from point to point) from HAL Airport and it would cover the distance to Goa within an hour. It will be first a home-grown naval aviation platform will to land at INS Hansa. Commodore T A Maolankar from the National Flight Test Centre is expected to pilot NP-1 during Goa mission. The Navy is expected to give an official name for the LCA Navy soon as they were not keen to go with Tejas. It was former Prime Minister A B Vajpayee who named the IAF variant as Tejas. The ADA-HAL-Navy teams plans to invite PM Narendra Modi for the naming ceremony in future. The trials at the SBTF are crucial as it would give the team confidence to undertake further trials on NP-1. A second prototype (NP-2, fighter variant) is also getting ready at the HAL hangars, which is expected to have its maiden flight before the end of this year.

In an interview to OneIndia recently, Navy Chief Admiral R K Dhowan had expressed concern over the delay in LCA naval programme. "It's an important programme for us and we have the IAC (Indigenous Aircraft Carrier) in Kochi getting ready and the SBTF waiting for LCA Navy. It's important that the programme is speeded up," the navy chief had said. Naval sources say that the Navy Chief is expected to review the progress of the project in Delhi on December 8. "The Chief will also be briefed about the scheduled events that are expected to be undertaken at SBTF," a naval official said.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
The Japanese settled for the F-35 because the F-22 was denied to them, the same as the Australians. Allow them the F-22 and they will backtrack on their orders for the F-35, or merely restrict the numbers of their current orders.

It was the same for the Swiss, the air force was very vocal about wanting the Rafale but were screwed over by the MoD. That evaluation leak wasn't an accidental leak.

You forget something very important. It is not the military which chooses the aircraft, it is the govt which does. .

As much as I want to disagree with you I can't because there is an element of truth in what you say. Politics unfortunately do play a BIG role in the acquisition of military equipment and the decision makers are not always the most knowledgeble or even the right ones. It happens in every country including the US but I'm 100% sure it happens in India as well.

Actually heck it plays a role everywhere! We just sign a million dollar contract to acquire HPs over Canons for printers. Can I honestly say one is better than the other? No I can't. Both passed with flying colors and price point was comparable. Did politics play a role in the final decision? perhaps! .. very likely.
It doesn't matter if it's a $50 billion deal or $10K, at the end of the day it's still a group of humans negotiating with another group of humans.

Yes I tend to believe that had the Raptor had been available for FMS to certain allied countries the F35 orders would shrink considerably possibly even put the entire initial JSF program in jeopardy however to imply that the only option these countries have is the F35 is disingenous as well. Everything is related. We cannot simply take hardware A vs hardware B and decust from that. The technical folks do that. A country (politicians) must do what it (they) think is the BEST overall option for the country not just short term but long as well.
 

aksha

Captain
Some guys on Indian forums are asking could you really park your bike few yards from aircraft carrier in construction :D

unfortunately he is right,i would tell you the name of that place (its actually a hotel),but i won't <for well ,you know the reason why,i suppose
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
It happens in every country including the US but I'm 100% sure it happens in India as well.

Of course it does. It was the MoD which made the suggestion to go for Rafale and the Super Hornet instead of the Mirage-2000. Until 2005, the IAF wanted Mirage-2000s.

They have come up with a pretty neat arrangement, so the thing like the Swiss MRCA deal doesn't happen. The air force gets to pick and choose two or three vendors that fulfill requirements, and the govt is allowed to step in after that.

In the Swiss deal, even though Rafale and EF were better, they picked Gripen because it was cheaper. In India, the air force kicked out Gripen in the first leg, along with the Mig-35, F-16, and F/A-18. That way the air force gets as close as possible to what they need while the govt gets to play politics after that. They have been trying to make it more and more transparent, so tenders are becoming more fair as the days go by.

And direct govt to govt deals are quite clean in India, though politics does play a part in it.

Actually heck it plays a role everywhere! We just sign a million dollar contract to acquire HPs over Canons for printers. Can I honestly say one is better than the other? No I can't. Both passed with flying colors and price point was comparable. Did politics play a role in the final decision? perhaps! .. very likely.
It doesn't matter if it's a $50 billion deal or $10K, at the end of the day it's still a group of humans negotiating with another group of humans.

This is a more telling tale of politics playing a role.

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The Air Force then gave Boeing competitor Airbus 12 days to bid on the project and awarded the contract to Boeing even though Airbus met more than 20 of the original 26 specifications and offered a price that was $10 billion less than Boeing's.

There's a lot more in the article.

however to imply that the only option these countries have is the F35 is disingenous as well. Everything is related. We cannot simply take hardware A vs hardware B and decust from that. The technical folks do that.

I'm afraid the only 5th gen option available to most countries is the F-35. And I am referring to countries which predominantly buy American, not European.

There are 10 countries in the F-35 program apart from the US.

Out of those 10, UK and Italy buy American.

The Dutch buy American.

The Australians buy American.

The Canadians buy American.

The Danes buy American.

The Norwegians buy American.

The Turks buy American.

The Israelis buy American.

The Singaporeans buy American.

Being partners, they have no other option but to buy the F-35. Out of these only UK, Italy and Turkey have indigenous programs. And not one of these countries have a non-American jet.

Apart from this the F-35 was sold to the Japanese and the Koreans. Both have only American aircraft in their inventory, apart from indigenous programs. They don't buy European. Even though the F-35 lost in Korea, the Koreans canceled the tender to buy the F-35.
 
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