Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

HMS Astute · Oct 26, 2014

aksha said:
the indians won't accept the mistral,reasons??

1)i don't think they want to anger the russians who are their best friends.
2)the indians have their own LHD programme ,they want to develop experince for their private shpyards witheir LHD programme.
3)the mistral is just a little more than half the displacement of the LHD's they want

The Indian Navy's quest for amphibious assault ships

The Indian Navy's (IN) role in relief and rescue operations during the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami won it plaudits from the international community while underlining its strategic potency to Indian policy planners. For the IN however, that event brought to the fore the crucial need to augment amphibious capabilities above and beyond what is provided by its existing fleet of medium sized landing ship tanks (LSTs). The first step was of course to induct the former USS Trenton, an Austin-Class Landing Platform Dock (LPD) as the INS Jalashwa. This ship has not only given the IN exposure to operating a vessel of this size and capability but has also helped it get a fair idea of what it wants for the future. And now the IN has begun the procedure for bringing in four new large amphibious warfare ships which will be built in India under international collaboration.

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Jeff Head · Oct 26, 2014

aksha said:
the indians won't accept the mistral,reasons??

1)i don't think they want to anger the russians who are their best friends.

I do not believe that getting the Mistral vessels would necessarily "anger," the Russians. To the contrary, the Indians, over time could share with the Russians and help them speed up the time when the Russians could build their own...possible with Indian collaboration

aksha said:
2)the indians have their own LHD programme ,they want to develop experince for their private shpyards witheir LHD programme.

The Indians could work a deal with the French to build the ships in India...just as the Russians were going to do with the second group of vessels for Russia.

aksha said:
3)the mistral is just a little more than half the displacement of the LHD's they want

I believe the Mistral design is potentially scalable,...meaning they could have the basic design and its mechanisms and then enlarge the vessel accordingly. The French know how would allow this to be done if a deal could be made.

Whether France is willing, and whether India is willing, are both things that would have to be researched and discussed by the two nations and the respective industry leaders from each who would be involved.

TerraN_EmpirE · Oct 26, 2014

Another Factor Akash is that looking at India's recent buying trends Russia is no longer number 1 The US and Europe have been selling a lot more to India. this trend seems to have started in the Clinton Administration and has continued since despite the relations with the Obama Administration.

aksha · Oct 27, 2014

Jeff Head said:
I do not believe that getting the Mistral vessels would necessarily "anger," the Russians. To the contrary, the Indians, over time could share with the Russians and help them speed up the time when the Russians could build their own...possible with Indian collaboration

The Indians could work a deal with the French to build the ships in India...just as the Russians were going to do with the second group of vessels for Russia.

I believe the Mistral design is potentially scalable,...meaning they could have the basic design and its mechanisms and then enlarge the vessel accordingly. The French know how would allow this to be done if a deal could be made.

Whether France is willing, and whether India is willing, are both things that would have to be researched and discussed by the two nations and the respective industry leaders from each who would be involved.

you misunderstood both my post as well as HMS astute's,what HMS astute said was that france should sell india the 2 mistrals they held back from russia.hence i said that if india buys these russia will be angry.

about the 4 LHD's to be built in india,i beleived the mistral and juan carlos are fore runners,
DCNS has collaberated with pipapev shipyard,and note pipapev has the largest dry dock in india at present.
which gives them an advantage, but,navantia is collaberating with Larsen & Toubro ,which have lots of experience in the indian defence industry,ABG shipyard has collaberated with Alion(i don't know much about Alion lpd's any information please share). the indian lhd's will be similar to the wasp class of the USN ,i suppose. do you think the IN wants to operate F35 B's on them,they said they were very interested in the f35( as i wrote in the russian thread) but i thought it was the C and not the B.

as for india and russia collaberating with lhd's ,i don't know much about that, but india has been sending all the designs of their indegenous warships to russia's NORTHERN SHIPYARD for advice ,so if if russia builds neww DDG's and if they look like evolved kolkatas ,i wont be surprised.

aksha · Oct 27, 2014

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Another Factor Akash is that looking at India's recent buying trends Russia is no longer number 1 The US and Europe have been selling a lot more to India. this trend seems to have started in the Clinton Administration and has continued since despite the relations with the Obama Administration.

Russia may no longer be india's no. 1 source for military goods.but russia is still india's most trusted friend.a friend which has stood with it since the 1961 goa liberation war .

russia has given given india 1 nuclear attack submarine and probably give another,the arihant ssbn hasbeen made with russian help(will the US or Europe ever do that),the bramhos missle is the highly upgraded onik and russia has given most of the rights to india,then there are the T90s the backbone of the indian army are liscence produced in india ,su30mki's are liscence produced in india ,the fgfa will be joint product betw. russia and india.

the things which india has brought from the US are not frontline weaponsother than the apache longbows,.this week india did not buy the javelin anti tank misslefrom the USA ,even though they were offered joint developement for a MK -IV.but the indian navy is very interested in the f35's

aksha · Oct 27, 2014

thanks to kunal biswas

Contains footage of HUD showing an R-73E being guided by Tejas Multi-mode radar.

Jeff Head · Oct 27, 2014

aksha said:
you misunderstood both my post as well as HMS astute's,what HMS astute said was that france should sell india the 2 mistrals they held back from russia.hence i said that if india buys these russia will be angry.

I did understand precisely that.

And I do not believe at this point Russia would necessarily be angry at India about it. Less so than if they go someplace else.

Russia and India, as you have indicated yourself, have a special relationship. If Indian were to get those Mistrals, and then begin building their own for the last two, then I believe Russia would benefit from it through their friendly relations with India.

Thus, Russia would be happier to see them go to India than almost any other place if Russia herself cannot have them.

That was my point.

thunderchief · Oct 28, 2014

Jeff Head said:
Russia and India, as you have indicated yourself, have a special relationship. If Indian were to get those Mistrals, and then begin building their own for the last two, then I believe Russia would benefit from it through their friendly relations with India.

Thus, Russia would be happier to see them go to India than almost any other place if Russia herself cannot have them.

Russia's position on the matter is that they paid for those ships, therefore they are legally theirs . If France doesn't deliver (and that is a big if ! ) , any country wanting to have good relations with Russia will not negotiate about those vessels , until the matter between Russia and France is resolved (i.e. money returned , damages paid etc ... )

Second, even if India decides to buy Mistrals, as aksha said, they are not built according to IN standards and needs, therefore it could not be expected from them to pay full price Russia offered.

Third, there is ongoing Rafale negotiation between India and France, and current dispute with Russia puts France in disadvantage (they look like unreliable supplier) .

aksha · Oct 28, 2014

thunderchief said:
Russia's position on the matter is that they paid for those ships, therefore they are legally theirs . If France doesn't deliver (and that is a big if ! ) , any country wanting to have good relations with Russia will not negotiate about those vessels , until the matter between Russia and France is resolved (i.e. money returned , damages paid etc ... )

Second, even if India decides to buy Mistrals, as aksha said, they are not built according to IN standards and needs, therefore it could not be expected from them to pay full price Russia offered.

Third, there is ongoing Rafale negotiation between India and France, and current dispute with Russia puts France in disadvantage (they look like unreliable supplier) .

they haven't distinguished themselves as a reliable supplier in the scorpene deal as well,with the mess they have created
this could put three massive deals in trouble for france
1)Multi role support vessel project(4 LPD's or LHD's)
2)project 75I (6 oceangoing deisel electric submsrines)
3)MMRCA deal which is already receiving brickbats from political and military circles due to its huge cost.

The alarm bells have gone off. After nine long years of waiting, the Indian Navy couldn't have expected a worse time for it to happen.

Suffering from two debilitating underwater losses within a year and tardy acquisition process, its only hope, Project 75 involving the construction of six Scorpene submarines based on transfer of technology from the French firm DCNS, is on the verge of taking a hit, resulting into the fourth straight extension of delivery deadline.

The Mumbai-based Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), which is building the boats with DCNS' assistance, has stated that critical spares which were to be supplied by DCNS are yet to materialise despite the deadlines expiring. What makes the crisis worse is the fact that these spares impact the first boat in all sections and thereby the lack of availability is expected to hit progress in construction. The present delivery schedule was worked out in November 2012 and orders were placed accordingly. This schedule stipulated that the first submarine would get commissioned into the navy by September 2016 and the remaining five at intervals of nine months after that. It is this schedule which now stands breached.

Meanwhile, the MDL has completed the construction of the six hulls for the six boats and has made headway into outfitting work on the first.

Rear Admiral (retd) Rahul Shrawat, Chairman and Managing Director, MDL said, "Earlier too this project was delayed on account of Mazagon Procurement Material (MPM) not being procured on time. Fresh MPM was ordered following a review. Of that, while some parts have come, some have not despite their delivery deadlines expiring. I am being forced to absorb delays and on many occasions I am undoing work I have done because parts come in later on". He added that the Ministry of Defence had been briefed over this and the 'pressure from all sides' was being applied on DCNS to deliver. "Even if it comes through today, I can deliver the boat on time," he mentioned. When asked if a revised timeline will have to worked out, following the delay, his response was, "I can't comment till the material actually comes to me."

It was informed that the first of the Scorpene boats was ready to be 'launched' in September next year. A year of trials after that, involving all systems including weapon firing, she should be ready for commissioning into the navy i.e in September 2016. "Work is going on 24 by 7 at the yard and we are highly motivated. My fingers are crossed," he added.

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aksha · Oct 28, 2014

Three Indian Warships Deployed in France

NEW DELHI: In an attempt to bolster maritime security cooperation between India and France, three Indian warships -- INS Mumbai, INS Talwar and INS Deepak -- reached Saint Denis port of the Reunion Island, France, on Monday.

The ships, under the Command of Rear Admiral R Hari Kumar, the Flag Officer Commanding Western Fleet, are on a two month-long overseas deployment to East Africa and the South Indian Ocean Region.

India and France had maintained close friendly relations with bilateral cooperation being extended to various fields.

The establishment of the Strategic Partnership in 1998 witnessed a further rise in bilateral relationswith regular high-level exchanges at the Head of the State and government levels, thus boosting cooperation in trade and investment, culture, science and technology, education, nuclear energy, space and defence to name a few.

The scale and quantum of defence cooperation between the two countries have progressively been stepped up in the past one decade.

The growing defence cooperation is evident from the conduct of annual Naval exercise ‘Varuna’, contract for the construction of Scorpene class submarines and the participation of a 400-strong contingent of the Indian Armed Forces in the Bastille Day parade in 2009, where the Indian Prime Minister was the Guest of Honour.

India and France are also members of Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS), a voluntary and cooperative initiative between 35 countries of the Indian Ocean Region, which has served as an ideal forum for sharing information and cooperation on maritime issues.
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elsewhere
Exercise Ibsamar underway

The tri-nation naval exercise Ibsamar is now in full swing following a week’s preparation and briefings in Simon’s Town.

With the exception of the South African Navy’s Type 209 submarine SAS Manthatisi, all vessels taking part in the exercise departed harbour yesterday with flying exercises by a 2 Squadron Super Lynx and boat launching and Officer of the Watch manoeuvres done while participating ships were steaming to a designated point ahead of a night steam.

Today the Brazilian, Indian and South African surface ships taking part will exercise defence against air attacks. 2 Squadron and its Gripens have been tasked to “attack” the Indian frigate INS Teg, the SA Navy fleet headquarters in Simon’s town confirmed. It did not indicate how many of the Swedish-built fast jets would take part in the exercise.

Live firing, search and rescue and vertical replenishment exercises are also planned for today with a dry run of a replenishment at sea (RAS) set for tomorrow along with a boarding operation. This will see aircraft locate a vessel of interest (one of either the Brazilian, Indian or South African warships), feed the necessary intelligence back to boarding parties, followed by an actual boarding exercise.

While steaming to Saldanha, the Ibsamar flotilla will be put under co-ordinated aircraft attacks and the rotary-winged component of the exercise will conduct flying operations and various maritime specific drills.Thursday starts with an open day at Saldanha that will see VIPs meet senior officers in the Saldanha wardroom.

No further exercise details were available at the time of publication but it is envisaged the drills practised during the False Bay/Saldanha transit will be repeated with anti-submarine operations added as Manthatisi will be part of the action from Wednesday.

Apart from the submarine the Navy platforms taking part in Ibsamar are SAS Spioenkop (F147), the offshore patrol vessel SAS Isaac Dyobha (P1565) and the mine counter-measures vessel SAS Umhloti (M1212).

Marine drills practised during Ibsamar will involve the South African Maritime Reaction Squadron (MRS) and Brazilian and Indian marines as well as elements of the SA Special Forces. This is likely to include a simulated landing by a marine group on a populated area with extraction of diplomatic personnel the mission objective.

Closing and debrief for Ibsamar IV is set for November 7 to 10 with demobilisation lasting from November 10 to 14.
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Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

HMS Astute

Junior Member

Jeff Head

General

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King

aksha

Captain

aksha

Captain

aksha

Captain

Jeff Head

General

thunderchief

Senior Member

aksha

Captain

aksha

Captain