Hong-Kong Protests

ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Mr T said:
The NPC is not an independent body and rubber-stamps pretty much everything the CCP leadership puts in front of it.
Click to expand...
As they would say in Silicon Valley, that's not a bug, it's a feature. Even in its lower phase of economic development, even while poverty still afflicts it, China has reached heights of governance no Western country could ever aspire to. Observe China's parliament - a magnificent, gargantuan hall with an assembly of thousands clapping in unison - and contrast it to any Western country's parliament - a comedy skit.
Mr T said:
Basically, Hong Kong is a libertarian's wet-dream. It's low tax, low regulation and low spending. If you're rich, it's heaven. If you're poor, you're stuffed. If you're in the middle, you'll struggle.
Click to expand...
So what? That's how Hong Kong butters its bread and anyone who doesn't like it can go somewhere else. The people "with actual grievances" you're talking about are a superfluous population who are at best irrelevant to how Hong Kong makes it living. They contribute nothing and are worth nothing to Hong Kong. If you think they're worth something, take them in. They're crying on TV channels right now for Britain to adopt them, what a hilarious sight that is.
Mr T said:
But, hey, it's easier to just blame people for being "brainwashed" than admit they've got actual grievances that have been ignored for the past 10 years and have no sign of being resolved.
Click to expand...
They have grievances? Osama bin Laden had grievances. Why should China listen to their grievances any more than America listened to poor old Ozzie's grievances?

I also want to make a comment on the discussion of George Floyd going on here. I feel that to exchange moral accusations with Americans is to already make a concession. While I used to, I don't now feel a need to point out America's rampant and flagrant hypocrisies. I don't a feel a need to say anything beyond the following:

China has the power, it's going to use it, and I dare you to do anything about it.
 
Last edited:
P

PanAsian

Major
Mr T said:
Young HK people aren't brainwashed. They're angry that their city has been turned into an overcrowded metropolis, where they have no chance of owning a reasonably sized property, have dismal career prospects due to the lack of well-paid jobs (and that those exist are designed more for international financial workers) and state benefits are pathetic.

Hong Kong spends less than 10% of GDP on government spending. That compares with over 14% in Singapore, nearly 15% in China and about 20% in Germany.

Basically, Hong Kong is a libertarian's wet-dream. It's low tax, low regulation and low spending. If you're rich, it's heaven. If you're poor, you're stuffed. If you're in the middle, you'll struggle.

This was sort of ok in the past, because Hong Kong was growing fast and there was enough money for most people. But now Hong Kong is more like a developed country, so government spending needs to increase with richer people shouldering more of the economic burden.

Just look at those figures I gave you. Hong Kong really should be spending about the same as Singapore as a percentage of GDP. But in reality it's spending almost 50% less. That's huge. That's why life sucks for so many people there, because the government won't put in place social programmes that are needed. And because young people are not going to have established careers, are more likely to have young children to look after and have a long time to retirement, they're most affected.

But, hey, it's easier to just blame people for being "brainwashed" than admit they've got actual grievances that have been ignored for the past 10 years and have no sign of being resolved.

EDIT: The specific government policies that started the protests - and the police response that inflamed passions - were just triggers. The long-term issues I mention above were the fuel. If young HKese had been happy with their lives and prospects, they would have been less concerned about the proposed extradition law or accepted mealy-mouthed government apologies such that the protests ended last year.
Click to expand...

Part of the population being brainwashed to be anti-HK-authorities/China/CCP and part of the population having legitimate economic grievances are not mutually exclusive. That the anti-HK-authorities/China/CCP opposition has never proactively brought up nor ever proposed any realistic solutions to any of the legitimate economic grievances when others have brought it up show that is not their real concern.

The legitimate economic grievances in Hong Kong, same as those in many places around the world, have been caused by globalization which includes China's and other countries' growth in wealth which is what has driven Hong Kong's growth in wealth. The same economic problems have been better addressed by the authorities elsewhere in China as well as in some other parts of the world, it shows Hong Kong's problems are a failure of the Hong Kong authorities and system, as you pointed out "a libertarian's wet dream", rather than that of China or the CCP.

None of the above makes committing terrorism as the violent anti-HK-authorities/China/CCP protesters have done and continue to try to do acceptable. None of the above is mutually exclusive from the situation being instigated by foreign forces especially since some of the anti-HK-authorities/China/CCP protesters call for secession and/or foreign invasion and there is a continuing historical pattern of foreign forces seeking the breakup of China. Hong Kong was a British colony only because of an invasion by Britain in support of pushing illicit drugs.
 
localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Hong kong protests are 100% artificial compared to this.

CIA and falungong fingerprints were all over that.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Mr T said:
Hell, I've seen people on this thread call for anti-CCP protesters in HK to be locked up or deported because they see the protesters' ideology as a threat to their own. A person can't, on the one hand, complain when their opponents are unpleasant towards them and then, in the same breath, demand they all be imprisoned o
Click to expand...

Wow. Just wow! I can't believe your ability to do such mental gymnasts. I would like to hear who are these people calling for locking up or deport anti-CCP PROTESTORS!

To make it easier for you, the clue is in capital.

No one I know or recall here calling for this. They have called for anyone caught BREAKING the LAW to be locked up or deported. See in capital, I'm kind to you. It's obvious you tend to get mix up with PROTESTORS and LAW-BREAKERS. But u can see it's easily done since the MSM that you read only ever called these "thugs" (Trump's own words for Minneapolis protestors) PROTESTORS!

As for opponents being just unpleasant towards us? Well say that to uncle Law that got stoned to death, or the man got set alight with 80 degree burns for daring to disagree. Where have you been hiding the last 9 months when it was all over this thread? But now you come out and turn it all on its head. Way to go!

Well here's some unpleasantry for you to evaluate.

FB_IMG_1590476133334.jpg

FB_IMG_1590615452687.jpg

FB_IMG_1590616106709.jpg

FB_IMG_1588585747086.jpg

FB_IMG_1590339359403.jpg

FB_IMG_1590413374545.jpg

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


There's a lot more of the thugs violence. Which you dont get to see because you only use your MSM for your news feed. I wont put them all here, because I guess you get the ideal!
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
@Mr T If they are so displeased at how Hong Kong is run and just wanted some competent leadership, the perfect solution is to have the CCP take it over! See how wonderful and peaceful the mainland is? They can have that too now! All they needed to do was be clear that that's what they needed instead of beating around the bush with their terrorism and 5 worthless crap requests, etc....
 
Last edited:
R

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
If you are talking about HK, there are zero deaths related to police action. 2 people shot, both survived. 1 death by misadventure not directly traceable to police activity.
Click to expand...

The fatality case mentioned by supersnoop is a rioter who ran into a parking garage when police started to disperse the rioters. He was later found dead falling from the multi-story garage. No police were seen by surveillance cameras entering the garage.

The other confirmed death relating to the riot is an old man murdered by the rioters. The old man joined other citizens to clear up debris left in the middle of streets by the rioters. The rioters started to throw rocks at the samaritans and one rock hit the old man on his head and killed him.

Both the above cases were reported and discussed previously in this thread. It again shows that Terran Empire, like most Western MSM and the US politicians, shamelessly misused facts to demonize China. I do not like to use these kind of disrespectful words on another forum member. But enough is enough.
 
S

supersnoop

Colonel
Registered Member
Mr T said:
They don't hate China - as people here tirelessly say, Hong Kong is part of China.

They're angry at the CCP, because only the CCP can authorise voting reform. Currently it's virtually impossible for ordinary HongKongese to get a government that prioritises higher spending and housing/employment reform, because special interest groups that benefit from the status-quo control the assembly and Chief Executive post. Until the CCP allows ordinary HKese to directly pick the Chief Executive and all the legislators, there won't be any change that makes the lives of ordinary - especially younger - HKese better.

Anyway, this moving towards a political discussion, and the mods don't like that. If you want to continue it, feel free to message me.
Click to expand...

You are mostly right on the social services/economic aspects.

I think you are way off base on the “hate CCP, not China”. The radicals throwing the molotovs hate China for sure. I would say your statement applies to the moderates (maybe).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you are looking at this from a generally "academic" perspective, meaning you don't really know many HK people on a personal level. I admit, I could be totally off-base here, but I am guessing this from your consistent use of "Hong Kongese", a term I have never heard anyone use commonly.

There is a very large population of HK people who HATE mainland Chinese. People calling them locusts, exaggerated stories of pregnant mainland women filling up the hospitals etc., telling mandarin-speakers to not speak mandarin, typical anti-immigrant sentiment you would find in any country. No government reform will change their mind.

I won't get further into the political aspects (way too idealistic IMO)

One other aspect you are overlooking is that the opportunities for HK people realistically are in the mainland. HK simply cannot compete with Shenzhen right now. The level of innovation is so high, making the number of opportunities greater. No amount of government intervention can affect this. Taxes are already low, education level is already high. Many younger HKers with STEM backgrounds are willing to commute to SZ for work. They are not protesting at the CE to help them. With all these opportunities about 40 minutes away, what is stopping them from pursuing them? Usually they just "don't like" going to mainland (i.e. hate PRC or hate CCP).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top