Hong-Kong Protests
- Thread starter Pika
- Start date
I'll answer this in two parts
- Quid pro quo, gotta give the Brits something to get something in return, all be it we were on the right side of history and the Brits absolutely had to hand Hong Kong back to China
- Don't think even the great Deng Xiaoping would've thought China would catch up and overtake Western society so quickly when the Sino-British Joint Declaration was signed
solarz
Brigadier
Back then China needed HK as it was to catch up to the West. The 50 year limit was to give China enough time to do so. I doubt even Deng expected China to rise so quickly.
I'm not sure if that was dub though. It could be real. And I wish it was real. Lol
To be fair, many of the judges letting rioters go are ethnically Chinese.
While I agree that foreign uproar should not really be a concern of the Chinese government, (i.e. Ridiculous 'outrage' from Canada: , truth is they want potential covid recovery dollars), I don't think that this idea that what people think in HK doesn't matter because of the riots is right.
First, even if we take the highest and largest protest estimate (2 million, which has been debunked anyway), this is still only representative of a minority of the population who actively go out and cause trouble.
Second, don't forget that CCP legitimizes their government through effectiveness and delivering on the needs of the people. HK does have certain needs unique to itself not shared by other regions of China, so total decolonization approach and destruction of all British administrative apparatus will not necessarily bring about the positive changes that you seek.
To give an example, Ukraine's government has a strong anti-Russian faction, whenever this faction has taken power, they always push their de-Russification agenda on the country. Since cultural/social/economic ties between the country are not nearly as distant as the government wants them to be, this inevitably causes the country to stagnate, or even go backwards. Comparing to Belarus, which kept the Soviet apparatus intact (down to KGB) and relations with Russia good, the per capita GDP is much better than Ukraine.
Off topic aside for a moment
Of course now Belarus also has unrest related to the government right now. I can't confirm this next part, but according to some of my friends, this is more of a personality issue. One key aspect of these protests is that they are not in favor of any shift away from Russia, which is probably why they do not seem to be getting the same support as Ukraine from Western powers (i.e. indirect military support).
Back on topic.
You might think 50 years is too long, but basically since the Deng, the central government's approach has been very deliberate. Even after the passage of the NSL, it is nothing like what the western media portrays with "crackdowns" and "disappearances", you still have people protesting, pretty much proving that the NSL is not heavy handed. Anyone with a brain cell knows the real "teeth" is the establishment of a centralized investigative bureau.
HK as a long established link in the money laundering chain, has allowed a lot of money from subversive organizations to flow into the city. All the reports of the money drying up (even before NSL), made a big difference in the relative unrest. Spark Alliance account closure coincided with the Poly U siege. Since the account was closed, there has never been anything close to what happened at Poly U. In a hyper capitalist place like HK, money makes the world go round. Again, this is not an actual thing, but just potential examples. University professors and other teachers could probably supplement their salary by politicizing students, disguised as a "grant" or "special award" from some NGO. Similarly with Doctors, suddenly they are awarded with chairperson status of some random organization. Even if a state actor is not in direct control of an NGO, they are easy to infiltrate and carry out intelligence related activities, this was part of the way Bin Laden was hunted down (Vaccination program under false pretenses created by CIA).
Is there any doubt as to why we Chinese hate this guy so much? The Fatso is trying his best to provoke China before he leaves office. If China done this all the time to western countries. The MSM would be all over it like a bad rash.
If anyone says what he said on here. It'll be call out as flamebait.
China warns of action after Pompeo says Taiwan not part of China
BEIJING/TAIPEI (Reuters) - China will strike back against any moves that undermine its core interests, its foreign ministry said on Friday, after U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that Taiwan “has not been a part of China”.
Rest of the article:
Unfortunately that's the case. Because the Hong Kong justice system is subservient to the UK judicial system. This is true of all the ex British empires countries. St least that was true when i was studying law as part of my qualification. My tutor, a practicing barrister said all potential barristers from the "commonwealth" ex empire basically, in order to qualify as barrister. They have to belong to one of the four "inns" of London And have lunch with judges at least 7 times in their life. Basically showing deference.
As hopeful as I can be for the HKers, time and time again they will just keep disappointing you. You can check it yourself the percentage of voters that vote for the pro-china parties and the opposition. It's always been 55-45 for the opposition. Of course they will try to spin it that this is *because* of recent hardline approach from china during Xi's era (as if previous leaders would just sit idly doing nothing when they behaved like that last year), but that's yet another complete lie from them.
So let's just face it. The majority of hongkongers sadly dislike china, the people of course included; "we hate the CPC not chinese people" is probably the most classic lie these people so commonly uttered. It is not the end of the matter however, things can change but those changes require continuous efforts. I am quite optimistic on hong kong's future despite my current pessimistic views of them.
If you look it rationally then sure of course. But not everyone's rational, not everyone can see this, especially not the majority of people in hong kong. The kind of people that demonizes CPC for being 'authoritarian', 'hardline', cannot be persuaded with your logic. These people will see the western-style democracy and governance as the utmost importance, the be-all and end-all, while you and I will just see it as merely a tool of many possible tools that a government can use to achieve effective governance for its people, the one logical goal for a government to strive for.
Yes and no. Yes, some of these judges are Chinese. But ALL of them are from the English learned judges. Another word, they are the products of English judicial system. And they all swear allegiances to the crown! So basically, they are bananas.
The problem was that at the time of this agreement HK alone accounted for close to 1/3rd of Chinese GDP. It was critical to Chinas economic stability. Hence China wasn't in a strong negotiating position as it couldn't risk weakening HK and had to accept most conditions put forward to it.