Hong-Kong Protests

Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
PikeCowboy said:
CCP doesn't have majority control over HK politics because every time they try to push reform a bunch of smart asses get around and sacks the legislative building.
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That's a very strange way to look at it, given that:

1. The Chief Executive has always been pro-CCP and effectively requires the CCP's support to get elected;
2. The Functional Constituencies that select the Chief Executive are dominated by pro-CCP groups;
3. Those same FCs give the pro-CCP political parties an almost automatic majority in LegCo;
4. The Chief Executive has now said that opposing the HK government's policies, even during LegCo votes, is in violation of the national security law; and
5. Carrie Lam has basically unlimited power now that she can use emergency powers whenever she sees fit.

HK protesters have temporarily disrupted HK politics, but it was just that - temporary. Eventually the CCP always gets its way politically in HK, and no big changes happen without its approval. HK protesters have tried peaceful protests and violence, but they've never had a significant piece of legislation passed that they demanded.

HKers need to figure their own shit out, as in what's their niche? what is their value? how can they be helpful?
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How can HKers do any of that if they're unable to choose the Chief Executive and it's now illegal to challenge the pro-rich policies of the HK government? The people who decide HK's future have no interest in changing the city's course and will just run crying to the CCP if anyone threatens their gravy train denouncing them as "enemies of the state".

I'm saying that the HK people need to know who's feeding them
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You might not have meant that in the literal sense, but don't forget that China imports more food than it exports. If China is feeding Hong Kong then someone else is feeding China. Also, don't forget that the whole of China benefits from HK being a financial hub than a random second or third tier city.

not go around trashing China in front of others it's embarrassing. It's like the teenager who goes around public dissing his own family to strangers as if that makes him look better
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I'm not sure that's the best comparison, especially if we're going to agree that HK is a child that requires special rights and protections and China is a parent that should be held responsible for any harm that comes to the child by an independent authority.

I'm saying Hker's should put their heads down and work hard
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They've been working hard for over 150 years, putting up with a lot of crap along the way. It's only fairly recently, as social conditions in the city have worsened and job opportunities have been poorer, that unrest came to the front.

I think both HKers and CCP agree that these people need to be taken down a notch but CCP wants to do it their way and the HK people want to ?vote them out? (you can't really vote out rich people").
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I'm sorry to say, but the CCP doesn't really seem that interested in taking rich people in HK or mainland China "down a notch", not least since the upper echelons of the CCP leadership became rich themselves (does anyone think that Xi Mingze could go to Harvard if her father was just earning $22k a year?)

If anything the CCP sees the HK rich as being its natural allies, so they get a free pass so long as they don't fall foul of CCP internal scuffles.

As for ordinary HK people, ironically if you abolished the Functional Constituences then you actually could "vote out" the rich people that have LegCo seats via their businesses. You could also limit their influence in HK politics more widely by lobbying laws and make them pay back into the financial system that gives them their wealth by making them pay more taxes.

I'm willing to concede that CCP has been slow and negligent with HK, mainly because they want to white glove everything but now with the HK affairs department elevated to semi-national level and the new security law hopefully things will start to move ahead.
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It would be nice to see, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is at the same place today as Mr T post of the thugs getting their justice dished out to them. Can anyone see this thug is actually a man!

Later on this thug is seen on video collapse on the street all by itself. Talk about stage. (I can't post that video from my WhatsApp group. Unless someone can show me).

IMG-20200906-WA0001.jpg

Edit. Yes thanks @localizer that's the one! Where's Mr T when you need him! Lol.

You know what guys, I somehow get the feeling that the man from the A-Team, like his action programme seem to live in an alternate universe. Somehow all these happened in the same place same area same time, but all he sees its "police brutality", but somehow missed all the best antics around him! Lol
 
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E

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Mr T said:
That's a very strange way to look at it, given that:

1. The Chief Executive has always been pro-CCP and effectively requires the CCP's support to get elected;
2. The Functional Constituencies that select the Chief Executive are dominated by pro-CCP groups;
3. Those same FCs give the pro-CCP political parties an almost automatic majority in LegCo;
4. The Chief Executive has now said that opposing the HK government's policies, even during LegCo votes, is in violation of the national security law; and
5. Carrie Lam has basically unlimited power now that she can use emergency powers whenever she sees fit.

HK protesters have temporarily disrupted HK politics, but it was just that - temporary. Eventually the CCP always gets its way politically in HK, and no big changes happen without its approval. HK protesters have tried peaceful protests and violence, but they've never had a significant piece of legislation passed that they demanded.



How can HKers do any of that if they're unable to choose the Chief Executive and it's now illegal to challenge the pro-rich policies of the HK government? The people who decide HK's future have no interest in changing the city's course and will just run crying to the CCP if anyone threatens their gravy train denouncing them as "enemies of the state".



You might not have meant that in the literal sense, but don't forget that China imports more food than it exports. If China is feeding Hong Kong then someone else is feeding China. Also, don't forget that the whole of China benefits from HK being a financial hub than a random second or third tier city.



I'm not sure that's the best comparison, especially if we're going to agree that HK is a child that requires special rights and protections and China is a parent that should be held responsible for any harm that comes to the child by an independent authority.



They've been working hard for over 150 years, putting up with a lot of crap along the way. It's only fairly recently, as social conditions in the city have worsened and job opportunities have been poorer, that unrest came to the front.



I'm sorry to say, but the CCP doesn't really seem that interested in taking rich people in HK or mainland China "down a notch", not least since the upper echelons of the CCP leadership became rich themselves (does anyone think that Xi Mingze could go to Harvard if her father was just earning $22k a year?)

If anything the CCP sees the HK rich as being its natural allies, so they get a free pass so long as they don't fall foul of CCP internal scuffles.

As for ordinary HK people, ironically if you abolished the Functional Constituences then you actually could "vote out" the rich people that have LegCo seats via their businesses. You could also limit their influence in HK politics more widely by lobbying laws and make them pay back into the financial system that gives them their wealth by making them pay more taxes.



It would be nice to see, but I'm not holding my breath.
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That would be called adhere to the one country two systems in letting HK decide on how the future is run. If the Democratic Party keep on voting down positive changes (and it’s not like as if the Democratic Party has any positive changes except make it easier for foreign powers to operate in HK and support violence at every turn turning the very movement into a world wide embarrassment) then of course HK is going to suffer. The nation security law would have been put into play ages ago if the HK government had real back bone. And also, what ever is happening in HK now is nothing compared to what is happening in the USA right now, where are the called for the violation of human rights there. I guess double standards and selective logic is all you are good for. And anything the ccp does is bad, everything that the USA government does is good. Really, by China passing that security law, at least some peace can finally start to return, unlike in the USA where the violence is just getting started. Please consider that as of now as to whether the people of HK want to go through with yet another uprising knowing that it has accomplished nothing but showing how violent things can truly get under a Democratic government (these rioters in HK and the rioters in the USA are exactly the same, hurting everyone and not pushing through any changes that can benefit anyone)
 
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
They say Asians have a higher rate of mental problems than others. Now we know what politics they hold.
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Mental condition is no small matter. As the saying goes, there's more of them outside than in!

I remember my first contact with someone mental. I was around 6 or 7 living in a village in the new territory with my grandma. One of our villagers (a cousin two or three times removed, those of us Chinese here will know what I mean as all of us with the same surnames live together in one village.) Went mad and was sent to an institution. When he was released he had no where to go. No one in the village wanted anything to do with him. So my grandma took him in our house. I was scare for awhile I can tell you.
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
emblem21 said:
That would be called adhere to the one country two systems in letting HK decide on how the future is run.
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Except that all decisions on HK's political future have to come from the CCP. The failed 2015 "reform" package was drafted in Beijing by the NPCSC, not in Hong Kong.

If the Democratic Party keep on voting down positive changes
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The pro-democracy camp can't veto any financial or social proposals in LegCo. The only issue their consent is required on is changing the political system. Even if you take into account some of the recent filibustering, pro-CCP HK elites have had decades to do something about poor public spending in the city, and they've completely failed. The HK government won't even propose tax rises to target the rich.

Really, by China passing that security law, at least some peace can finally start to return
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Well given that the violence was so prolonged because the CCP didn't want to lose face and refused to give the protesters the independent investigation into HK police brutality (early on assessments were made that if that had been agreed to along with the extradition law being cancelled, most protesters would have gone home), I'm not sure we can say they've dealt with this in the best way possible.

To put it another way, if I had the power to take you away from your home and send you to another territory where you had no family or friends, couldn't access a lawyer and faced a 99.99% certainty of spending anywhere up to life in jail, I'm sure I could keep you quiet. But you probably wouldn't want that threat hanging over your head.

unlike in the USA where the violence is just getting started
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So you'd advise President Trump to suspend the presidental elections, make an executive order to extend his term, ban the Black Lives Matter campaign, make criticism of his policies illegal and arrest Joe Biden?
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
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About four in five low-income families in Hong Kong cannot afford computers for their children to take e-learning classes at home while schools are closed because of the
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and one-fifth do not have Wi-fi either, a study has found.

The survey, by the pressure group Alliance for Children Development Rights, also found cases in which students had to share their parents’ mobile phones with their siblings to take the classes.

The alliance urged the government to cut red tape and offer direct subsidies for needy students to buy computers or tablets, rather than having to apply through their schools. The government should also give data SIM cards to needy families without Wi-fi at home, it said.
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Just a small example of the consequences of income inequality in Hong Kong and how the government isn't really interested in fixing the causes of it.

Hong Kong remains one of the most unequal developed territories in the world. It's more unequal than not just the EU average but also Singapore and the USA. I'm sure I even saw a report that says it's more unequal than mainland China, but that could be out of date. But it's certainly morally inferior to mainland China on taxation:
  1. No capital gains tax
  2. No inheritance tax
  3. No tax on share dividends
  4. Flat property tax
  5. No tax on offshore profits
These are taxes that the HK government could bring in if they wanted to. Indeed, they decided after the handover to abolish an already existing inheritance tax.

The HK government doesn't have the money for social spending because they're more interested in satisfying the demands of rich people than looking after ordinary HKers.
 
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