Humorless robot, got it.If you're having a conversation with someone, it's best to be serious if you're alleging they have said or done X or Y.
And my point is that one Sheriff in whatever town doesn’t count for anything outside that town. Especially true when the president of the entire country is actually promising a military crackdown. You want HKPF chief to be calm and understanding, but most of the damage (at PolyU, for example) was after the bill was withdrawn. All the pleas were being for calm (by the government) were being ignored and leaders said they will not repudiate the violence. In the US, many of the leading voices do not condone the violence.You're not very good at reading what people write, are you? I never said the US police force was overall "good" or that the video showed there's no racism in US police enforcement.
The point was that it would have been nice to see a similar act in Hong Kong, a senior officer showing solidarity with protesters or otherwise that he/she really understood them. But there hasn't been that sort of situation, and the only public statements have been pretty nasty or negative. It doesn't mean the Hong Kong police are all bad, there are no doubt junior staff who have resigned or shown compassion at times. But the senior leadership haven't handled things well and given protesters a reason to think they're being fair, other than they haven't shot all of them.
You have seen this trade war in the news I'm assuming. Trump has no issue with pursuing a Pyrrhic victory, rather than actual win-win negotiations. Also, and I'm assuming you are talking about US to HK specifically, but certainly there has been a lot of history of open and covert intervention (Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, etc., etc.). Of course there is the famous other side, US accusations of Russian electoral interference.I don't agree. The protesters have probably been encouraged by people around the world on social media, but no democratic government has directly intervened to make the protests larger or last longer. Pretty much any government I can think of would like the protests to end, because they're bad for business.
Also whenever I hear "external forces" I can't take it seriously. There are no names, no organisations, nothing. It's like saying "someone is doing something in the shadows, but I won't name them so you can't prove I'm wrong".
I understand the trepidation from accepting the external forces hypothesis. However, it's logical deduction, I will give names too (as much as I could find). Here is a simple summary of some of them.
"FreedomHKG", a website no longer in service. Put up the money for the full page NYT ads around the world (total cost, >$100,000 USD, according to their crowdfunding page $250,000 USD). Allegedly earned through crowdfunding. However, the timeline and speed at which it was executed (ads published within 1 day of crowdfunding page being put up), would exceed money laundering protections and editorial review periods.
FLG was able to pay facebook millions for ads to promote Trump's hardline stance against China. FLG also has a worldwide media apparatus (New Tang Dynasty, Epoch Times), entertainment division (Shen Yun orchestra and acrobatic troupe). There is no way a cult would have the organizational chops to support so much on its own so quickly, and also raise funding for so much.
Martin Lee and Joshua Wong are also on the record as accepting money from NED. If you don't think NED is a tool of American foreign policy, then there's nothing I can do to prove that.
Agree to disagree.No, I think the international media would be saying that Beijing was starting to listen and that this might signal a peaceful resolution to the protests.
When you say things like "People's F*cking Republic of Shin-na", and put up banners, there's no going back. Let's be real here. Not to mention, most people were in HK were disgusted by their ignorance of the occupation and atrocities committed by Japan (and general histrionics).The oath taking was a big deal because it led to legislators being kicked out just on that point. Up until Beijing intervened it had been possible for at least some of the legislators to retake it. It was a completely unnecessary intervention and just made the CCP look petty by demanding absolute loyalty with no critical thinking or tolerance.
To you (and probably even many of the pro-CCP people here), sure it makes sense. As I said before, for the central government they were in a lose-lose situation. Perhaps they can blame themselves as you suggested (i.e. should have pushed their faction to enact better social policies), but that's the position they were in last year.As for the Chief Executive, if she's been unable to resolve a situation where there have been protests for a whole year, yes I think Beijing should have demanded her resignation. Alternatively, in a parallel universe where Beijing fully respects Hong Kong's autonomy and has never said a word about the city's politics, it could have said the central government no longer had any faith in her and that she should consider her position.
After Mao died! That was almost in the 80's! Even after Mao died, Deng Xiaoping was not able to consolidate his power until probably a decade later. HK was already picking economically by then. Of course people were trying to escape CCP repression, landowners, academics, for example, but these people are a tiny minority.You forgot rule of law. That was key. There was stability in mainland China after Mao died but no rule of law. Plus people did seek asylum in Hong Kong on the basis of CCP repression.
To a certain a extent, but why do they feel this way? See above.Oh please. If there really was "foreign influence" the protesters would be told to not fly any international flags. It's just a demonstration of how the students feel themselves to be more international than PRC Chinese.
That's your opinion. I don't think I did.That doesn't really address my point that your attitude has disrespected the good faith negotiations of previous Chinese leaders.
Are you Chinese? Are you from HK? You don't think it has any relation? You think that rioters fighting at the bottom of a flat where your family lives, beating up people from the region of China that your family is from is okay? Maybe you would reconsider your position if so.You're using a lot of exclamation marks and unnecessary capital letters for someone who is calm.
First, none of that has any relation to how a person reacts to the protests in Hong Kong.
I could crack some serious heads if I was not calm.
Call me what you like. I was giving you an idea of why I do not support these so-called protestors, and also why the media commentary is so infuriating (to myself and many others). You're right, the internet is filled with this crap on any side, but we are talking about HK here and this criticism does influence the debate.Second, people of all nationalities are criticised on the internet every day, it's not new. Do you not think there are forums and social media pages where an American could spend all day seeing posts about how they're evil and support Trump, even if they suffer because of his policies?
If you personally are criticised on another forum or social media, do you think that it's because you're offering a nuanced view of the situation or because you're using a lot of exclamation marks, caps and talking about foreign interference, therefore looking like an irrational, ultra-nationalist even if that's not who you are?
As I mentioned, why wouldn't they be angry? I have never heard of anyone waving an Irish flag (in North America, at least) being accused of "divided loyalty". Maybe in the UK it would.Also, would you not accept that there probably are a lot of people out there who either a) only ever support the CCP in an angry fashion so make a bad name for Chinese citizens or ethnic Han people, b) are incapable of showing nuance so it makes it seem like they blindly follow the CCP?
Personally I'm always interested in nuance and people's views. Which of the CCP's policies (not necessarily on Hong Kong) are you opposed to?
Sure, I can agree that angry yelling CCP supporters make Chinese people look bad, just as gun-toting, flag-waving, red MAGA hat wearers make Americans look bad. However, that is their prerogative. I can't control what they do.
You want a position, so I will tell you. CCP is the government of the day. They do good things, they do bad. Not any different from any other government since the beginning of time. Since I look at things more pragmatically, I say they have done a good job overall. Being able to read and eat are probably some of the most basic human rights. You can't learn what this means from a book. I don't think most non-Chinese have a good grasp of this. I also don't think the HK rioters understand this either.
I invite debate, why not? I can defend my position all day, all night.Third, if you just want to vent, consider doing it in private on a closed forum or Whatsapp group where people won't see what you've written and challenged it. Doing it on an international/English-language forum it inviting comment.