Hong-Kong Protests


localizer

Captain
Registered Member
America rules the world with an Iron Fist.

No one dares speak against the US or they will get bombed with JDAMs, propaganda and misinformation.

We see 0 condemnation from other OECD leaders in regards to how US police are handling things. Democracy exists nowhere.

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VOA reports events and includes no historical background of atrocities against blacks. But they always slip in Uyghurs or 6/4 in articles about China.
 
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supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just to add, because I only started posting after the unrest started...
Much is always made about the “two systems”, never about the “one country” part, why is that?

I had once suggested that if this movement was truly about democracy or “freedom”, then we wouldn’t have so much flag burning. I ended up being called a virtue-signaller! Is it wrong to suggest that anyone who truly believes in supporting HK’s self determination should try to work with the central government instead of denouncing it?
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
Lol. Here's a real front page news from Apple daily.

View attachment 60553

View attachment 60554
So it's seems they're not commenting on what's happening in the US. I don't know what they're saying in Hong Kong but from reading comments in the US by Hong Kong sympathizers they seem to believe the difference is Hong Kong protests are peaceful while in the US they're violent hence why they don't sympathize... LOL!!!!!
 

Mr T

Senior Member
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Police video footage showed that Tam boarded the van without apparent injuries, but was subsequently diagnosed with a fractured nose and scratches and bruises on the face in hospital.

Shum said the defendant broke his nose by himself during the struggle. When asked by Chan whether the medical report was untrue, Shum said he could not explain its findings.
Glad the kid was freed, but seriously, "someone broke their own nose whilst in my custody"?
 

Mr T

Senior Member
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It's great that HongKongese will continue to remember the 1989 Beijing massacres. Carrie Lam's suggestion that the continued ban on gatherings of more than 8 people is about public health is a joke given that you can now go to religious services in a church, temple, etc in Hong Kong. All the evidence suggests that the risk of transmission of Covid-19 is worse inside than it is outside.
 
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dankris

Junior Member
Registered Member
Carrie Lam and President Xi has handled the protest much better despite western instigation and intervention.

1. No hard crackdown
2. Freedom of speech
3. Hands off approach by central government

Same cannot be said of US handling the George Floyd protest despite lack of foreign instigation and intervention and real human rights violation. Sadly, I am not optimistic justice will be served for George Floyd and Black People in general.
I would say on HK points 1 & 2 are debatable, but considering how murky the situation was/is and how violent the "protesters" were/are, I'm not surprised if the HK law enforcement unit was rougher than usual. I'm also not surprised minorities in the US got killed and no one got convicted in the aftermath, but I sure am surprised that those riots actually happened. I mean, the minorities in the US had been pressured for so long I thought they'd got tamed by the unfair system. Anyway, it's nice to have a heads up before their November election. I'll be sure to prepare popcorn and see if the Abrams finally got some work to be done on US soil.
 
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Glad the kid was freed, but seriously, "someone broke their own nose whilst in my custody"?
They should just use the US system, which is if there's no video from multiple angles proving that the police were at fault, then it's the civilian who is assumed to be lying. Don't worry, China can fix that, make a special police system for uncivilized places.
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It's great that HongKongese will continue to remember the 1989 Beijing massacres. Carrie Lam's suggestion that the continued ban on gatherings of more than 8 people is about public health is a joke given that you can now go to religious services in a church, temple, etc in Hong Kong. All the evidence suggests that the risk of transmission of Covid-19 is worse inside than it is outside.
They remember it, I remember it too. Lots of rioters who attacked and even killed police were finally served justice by the order of Premier Deng Xiaoping. Right now, they're all, "I can imagine this; I can't imagine that" like you from your British teachings but they'll remember more clearly like I do once the reeducation process begins and they start thinking about facts rather than imagination.

And I agree, all religious services should be banned... indefinitely, leading back to the facts over imagination process.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
I was only half serious, which is why I parroted your choice of words.
If you're having a conversation with someone, it's best to be serious if you're alleging they have said or done X or Y.

But you already said yourself, there are good and bad cops in the HK/US. Your video of one good cop really doesn’t absolve an undeniably racial policing problem in America. Just as an “HK police superintendent” NOT making such a speech makes them a “bad cop”.
You're not very good at reading what people write, are you? I never said the US police force was overall "good" or that the video showed there's no racism in US police enforcement.

The point was that it would have been nice to see a similar act in Hong Kong, a senior officer showing solidarity with protesters or otherwise that he/she really understood them. But there hasn't been that sort of situation, and the only public statements have been pretty nasty or negative. It doesn't mean the Hong Kong police are all bad, there are no doubt junior staff who have resigned or shown compassion at times. But the senior leadership haven't handled things well and given protesters a reason to think they're being fair, other than they haven't shot all of them.

However, I definitely think that the scale of the protests were aided by external forces.
I don't agree. The protesters have probably been encouraged by people around the world on social media, but no democratic government has directly intervened to make the protests larger or last longer. Pretty much any government I can think of would like the protests to end, because they're bad for business.

Also whenever I hear "external forces" I can't take it seriously. There are no names, no organisations, nothing. It's like saying "someone is doing something in the shadows, but I won't name them so you can't prove I'm wrong".

However, if Beijing were to force Carrie Lam to resign, do you honestly think all of the western media would not be gloating over “Beijing’s heavy hand” or whatever?
No, I think the international media would be saying that Beijing was starting to listen and that this might signal a peaceful resolution to the protests.

You already think the oath taking is a big deal (which technically is a “national” issue), but booting out the chief executive is something they just should’ve done?
The oath taking was a big deal because it led to legislators being kicked out just on that point. Up until Beijing intervened it had been possible for at least some of the legislators to retake it. It was a completely unnecessary intervention and just made the CCP look petty by demanding absolute loyalty with no critical thinking or tolerance.

As for the Chief Executive, if she's been unable to resolve a situation where there have been protests for a whole year, yes I think Beijing should have demanded her resignation. Alternatively, in a parallel universe where Beijing fully respects Hong Kong's autonomy and has never said a word about the city's politics, it could have said the central government no longer had any faith in her and that she should consider her position.

If economic measures were the primary indicator, then protestors should be begging for the end of two systems.
The protesters don't trust the central government to run things any better, I would have thought that would be pretty obvious.

The UK did not “give” anything to HK except capital and stability (which is admittedly important). People did not flee the mainland for “rule of law”. They fled mainly for economic opportunities.
You forgot rule of law. That was key. There was stability in mainland China after Mao died but no rule of law. Plus people did seek asylum in Hong Kong on the basis of CCP repression.

High confidence in police? Only in the later years.
Well yeah, in the later years, nearer to the handover. The HK police had a good legacy from the UK era in 1997.

The colonial and American flags don’t invalidate grievances, but they are a no doubt indicator of foreign influence to exacerbate the situation.
Oh please. If there really was "foreign influence" the protesters would be told to not fly any international flags. It's just a demonstration of how the students feel themselves to be more international than PRC Chinese.

There would be no negotiation if China was not in a position of power.
That doesn't really address my point that your attitude has disrespected the good faith negotiations of previous Chinese leaders.

I am calm! You see what is happening in the US? That is what happens when all the problems boil up! I am just posting on the internet! You might not be saying it, but this is what Chinese people have to hear EVERY SINGLE DAY.
You're using a lot of exclamation marks and unnecessary capital letters for someone who is calm.

How China is evil, how showing any admiration to your ancestral/home is somehow disloyal to your adopted (or only for native-born) country...
First, none of that has any relation to how a person reacts to the protests in Hong Kong.

Second, people of all nationalities are criticised on the internet every day, it's not new. Do you not think there are forums and social media pages where an American could spend all day seeing posts about how they're evil and support Trump, even if they suffer because of his policies?

If you personally are criticised on another forum or social media, do you think that it's because you're offering a nuanced view of the situation or because you're using a lot of exclamation marks, caps and talking about foreign interference, therefore looking like an irrational, ultra-nationalist even if that's not who you are?

Also, would you not accept that there probably are a lot of people out there who either a) only ever support the CCP in an angry fashion so make a bad name for Chinese citizens or ethnic Han people, b) are incapable of showing nuance so it makes it seem like they blindly follow the CCP?

Personally I'm always interested in nuance and people's views. Which of the CCP's policies (not necessarily on Hong Kong) are you opposed to?

Third, if you just want to vent, consider doing it in private on a closed forum or Whatsapp group where people won't see what you've written and challenged it. Doing it on an international/English-language forum it inviting comment.
 
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