Hong-Kong Protests

Canuck place said:

Yeah I'm wondering the same thing. Why put fuel on the fire right now?

But then I thought it would be a strategic mistake or a necessary move depending on how you look at it.

Obviously the west will pounce on this issue hard. But if China doesn't push this law now, HK legislation is up for elections in September and we know that the pro democracy camp and the west will fight hard to get those seats, if they get it, there will be a more independence leaning govt in HK affecting Chinese interests. Thus this needed to be done beforehand.

Secondly, with most of the world embroiled in coronovirus, economies are getting hit hard. China's economy seems to be the first on its way to recovering, they have the most 'relative' advantage versus the US and EU. Pushing this through now may make it harder for those other counties to enact economic retaliation.

The US can take away HK special status at any time but given that China economy is relatively stronger, it may not change investment in HK that much so it could be more symbolic and psychological than substance. US can't tariff China anymore due to the phase 1 deal and they need China to buy farm products especially after coronovirus. If US initiate more tarriffs then they break the deal and China will stop buying US producrs. US can certainly use the money right now.

US has already put a lot of pressure on China tech companies. US can't start a war for HK. So from china's POV, this maybe the best, and necessary time to push this through.

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yeahh and doesn't matter what China do, the US would always "attack" China of anything ..... so nothing to lose here

Also during C-19, most countries would need China (vaccine, medical supplies, etc) and China is very much "free" of C-19 right now

Xi has declared that Chinese vaccine would be 'Global Public Good', it means , it would be affordable to anybody. All C-19 vaccine wouldn't be necessarily made in China ... but with Chinese IP and FREE ... and this is a big statement from China


On the other hand, Trump has stated that the vaccine is only for the US

I think China will get the working C-19 vaccine first

muddie said:

The timing of the national security legislation by China is very interesting, why now? I had thought that the HK riots have pretty much died down in recent months with the exception of a few.

China must have known that U.S./U.K. would respond to this strongly, especially given the heighten anti-China rhetoric from the Trump administration in recent months.

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It’s precisely because of Trump’s increasing hostility that China is making this move now.

The riots didn’t die down because the rioters were somehow appeased or because of COVID19. The riots died down because China managed to strangle the means by which the CIA/NED was funding them, by shutting down crowd funding operations and similar easily abused money transfer means.

I am sure behind the scenes a lot of CIA/NED assets and networks were also decommissioned because they were activated to support the riots and thus exposed.

China knows that Trump will try to use HK as a means to damage and leverage China like before, so it is pushing through this legislation while America’s existing forces HK are depleted and while travel restrictions means they cannot easily deploy new assets into the territory.

The whole national security bill isn’t designed to rile up the rioters. Quite frankly they are now beneath Beijing’s notice or concern, the new law isn’t even really about them. The national security bill is first and foremost designed to lay the foundation to stop the expected next wave of American subversion operations in HK that Trump has no doubt already green lite. China wants to make sure that by the time America is in a position to move new assets into HK, those assets will find HK as dangerous and difficult to operate in as the rest of mainland China.

That will be a massive deterrent factor, and will exponentially increase the risks for American and other hostile foreign power agents trying to operate in HK, hence why America and her five eyes buddies are getting so upset about this law.

When Obama slapped tariffs on I think it was Chinese solar panels or tires, it took China a year to retaliate. By then Americans already had forgotten what Obama did so it looks like China acted without cause. That's why I don't like Beijing's measured canned responses. They're designed to not go too far to what they think is minimal but then because of the time passing, the other side sees it as an unprovoked attack. Look at Sweden how they were upset that China dared to give a boxing analogy saying Sweden was in a lower different weight class than China after a swipe by a Swedish official on twitter and Sweden cried their human rights were being violated. That means China never responded before and the Swedes were use to insulting China with no retort. What Beijing thinks is being civil by not responding in a timely manner, other countries start to think is their right and if any one changes the parameters like China finally responding, that's going against their human rights because they've been doing this long before and China didn't do anything about it.

Some are wondering why now is China enacting this law? Well it's been about a year... I bet why they wait so long is because they want emotions to calm down before enacting the law. That's why I want more of Sweden complaining. I like it when Sweden is showing its true colors thinking they have rights above everyone else and then they don't like it when it comes right back at them. Let the world see their hypocrisy in real time. China's way... the world doesn't see what Beijing thinks it's doing.

Wonder how can Trump ever face Xi in.
their next meeting. Trump want to be in the club of big players and stuff, but are using underhanded methods like destabilising hk, attempting to change rules, instead of taking Chinese competition head on by pushing for american innovation.

AssassinsMace said:

Hong Kong is just an excuse for plans to overall to stop China as a whole. All this would be happening with or without Hong Kong being an issue. The US has to hide behind things like Hong Kong because if they just did it without cause, the world would look at the US as the bad guy for disrupting the world because the US feels insecure of its position in the future.

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Is the no real justice under western led world order ? Hate something ? Simply label it an issue of freedom/human rights/democracy, then proceed with economic coercion/armed intervention. Thats pretty much the only procedure in the playbook of their free and fair world order. Are western pretending to be oblivious or really thinking they are the heroes the world need。

AssassinsMace said:

When Obama slapped tariffs on I think it was Chinese solar panels or tires, it took China a year to retaliate. By then Americans already had forgotten what Obama did so it looks like China acted without cause. That's why I don't like Beijing's measured canned responses. They're designed to not go too far to what they think is minimal but then because of the time passing, the other side sees it as an unprovoked attack. Look at Sweden how they were upset that China dared to give a boxing analogy saying Sweden was in a lower different weight class than China after a swipe by a Swedish official on twitter and Sweden cried their human rights were being violated. That means China never responded before and the Swedes were use to insulting China with no retort. What Beijing thinks is being civil by not responding in a timely manner, other countries start to think is their right and if any one changes the parameters like China finally responding, that's going against their human rights because they've been doing this long before and China didn't do anything about it.

Some are wondering why now is China enacting this law? Well it's been about a year... I bet why they wait so long is because they want emotions to calm down before enacting the law. That's why I want more of Sweden complaining. I like it when Sweden is showing its true colors thinking they have rights above everyone else and then they don't like it when it comes right back at them. Let the world see their hypocrisy in real time. China's way... the world doesn't see what Beijing thinks it's doing.

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the difference in the depth level of perspective and understanding aka 境界。the chinese is very adepted at reading the true essence,forgoing the facade/excuses(把戏). westerners esp like to find altruistic excuse to cover their intent. add on with the western self assumed sense of superiority, that is why they feel offended when Chinese respond right back at their intent. most other nations or races simply dont operate at the same level as the chinese, thus the west deem them easier target for manipulatiin under all the smokes of democracy, freedom, free market.

Since US is ending HK status as financial hub, they might as well promote Taipei to take over the title.

muddie said:

The timing of the national security legislation by China is very interesting, why now? I had thought that the HK riots have pretty much died down in recent months with the exception of a few.

China must have known that U.S./U.K. would respond to this strongly, especially given the heighten anti-China rhetoric from the Trump administration in recent months.

Click to expand...

Why now? Because the two sessions are now. These HK events happened basically since two sessions last year and needed to be addressed. Therefore we shouldn't overthink the precise occasion.

That said, China's adversaries on this matter have inflicted big wounds on themselves by their own COVID-19 follies. The US is in a very big crisis. Not only people's health and the medical system's stress, but big parts of the economy are collapsing as are federal and state finances. Add to this the usual political toxicity and the social strife that is starting to emerge once again over racial issues (oh yes, and masks also).

The HK rioters' defenders have their hands tied now, so its also the proper time to act, from a strategic point of view, and it doesn't matter how loudly they protest. Wasn't it like that in 1962?

Red Moon said:

Why now? Because the two sessions are now. These HK events happened basically since two sessions last year and needed to be addressed. Therefore we shouldn't overthink the precise occasion.

That said, China's adversaries on this matter have inflicted big wounds on themselves by their own COVID-19 follies. The US is in a very big crisis. Not only people's health and the medical system's stress, but big parts of the economy are collapsing as are federal and state finances. Add to this the usual political toxicity and the social strife that is starting to emerge once again over racial issues (oh yes, and masks also).

The HK rioters' defenders have their hands tied now, so its also the proper time to act, from a strategic point of view, and it doesn't matter how loudly they protest. Wasn't it like that in 1962?

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what happen in 1962? you meant 1967 ?

hullopilllw said:

the difference in the depth level of perspective and understanding aka 境界。the chinese is very adepted at reading the true essence,forgoing the facade/excuses(把戏). westerners esp like to find altruistic excuse to cover their intent. add on with the western self assumed sense of superiority, that is why they feel offended when Chinese respond right back at their intent. most other nations or races simply dont operate at the same level as the chinese, thus the west deem them easier target for manipulatiin under all the smokes of democracy, freedom, free market.

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You are right about the façade part, you are totally wrong about the intent though.

Western governments do this “virtue signalling” all the time to give the appearance of having the moral high ground. It is one of the oldest political strategies.

The Chinese government doesn’t have to do this as much because it doesn’t worry about elections.

Furthermore, the strategy has worked to keep America and their allies on the top of the heap this long, why would they change? Just make China look bad by saying “they lock up Uighurs” or in this case “kill Hong Kong democracy”, and fill up all the English language news with these kinds of stories, then people will overlook or forget about Afghan wars, Iraq wars, Libya wars, etc.

All you need to do is convince your own people that you are “right” and convince just enough of others (in this case HK) to cause a disruption. Throw in some money to keep it ongoing and if they are lucky, then a Soviet collapse happens. Otherwise, it is still a hassle to deal with.

You can say that the Chinese government is wrong if they go full crackdown and arrest and imprison all the Anti government HK leaders, but having the so-called “high ground” is 100% perception. How can the US be more moral when they’ve waged so many wars the past decade? It is not a commonly asked question. Frankly, it’s simply absurd to even suggest there is any high ground to be on. It’s like a pickpocket calling an armed robber a disgusting criminal.