Hong-Kong Protests

Jura said:

recently a troll in this thread had claimed I were an Indian according to that troll, that claim was deleted by a Mod, so I'll report you for trolling right now

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• Elections have changed the electoral maths on the committee that selects the city’s chief executive, giving increased importance to votes of the business elite
• Central government has accused property developers of fuelling unrest by ‘hoarding land’ but now must decide how to ensure they back their preferred candidate

Jura said:

a long one, but was worth reading:
alleges an ironic alliance would be needed for Beijing to be able to push its candidate, plus there's something in there for the debater from the previous page
supersnoop
oh and the link:

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supersnoop said:

Nutrient said:

Eventally the truth will dawn on most of the die hards; the mainlanders will be richer, on the average, than Hong Kongers will be by then, and probably freer too, in the things that matter. Media cannot distort reality forever -- especially when reality is only a few kilometers away. Eventually the die hards will begin to sound hollow, and the sensible people will abandon them.

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I agree that the truth will be hard to ignore. However, the anti-establishment might come up with more outrageous theories like CCP is robbing HK, and many people would probably believe it.

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Nutrient said:

I doubt many Hong Kongers will believe a lie like "CCP is robbing HK", when reality is only kilometers away. Also, in a decade or two, most Hong Kong jobs will be dependent on the mainland, and the people will know it. Few Hong Kongers will believe the anti-Beijing lies uncritically, in my opinion, not when they will be motivated to learn the truth about their mainland bosses.

And the truth will be easy to find. Not only will it be literally next door in Shenzhen, I see a media onslaught as well from Beijing in the coming years and decades -- not a propaganda offensive, as I hope there will be no lying. If pro-Beijing channels have a well-earned reputation for loudly and consistently telling the truth, I doubt the liars will have traction.

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KYli said:

Nutrient said:

What evidence do you have that police haters outnumber cockroach haters? Recent outpourings of support for the Hong Kong police would seem to disagree with you. And the Mong Kok no show -- only the rioters showed up at that widely pre-announced demonstration, very few normal people did -- would also suggest that the cockroaches are quickly losing much support. So what evidence can you stack up against these observations?

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The anti-establishment just won an election with high turnout. What more evidence do you need?

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Nutrient said:

Lots more evidence. An election is not a referendum; many issues -- not just rioter support -- are usually on the table. And a large turnout could simply be the result of heavy advertising in media outlets like Apple Daily. Anyhow, you can't claim overwhelming support for the rioters when the pan-dems increased their votes by just 8 percentage points.

In contrast, my stance -- that the cockroaches are losing their appeal -- rests on several independent lines of evidence.

(1) Recent large, vocal outpourings of support for the Hong Kong police.

(2) Shortage of normal people at many recent demonstrations, so that the rioters were lonely and exposed.

(3) The insult "cockroaches" becoming popular for the thugs.

Against these lines of evidence, you raise only an ambiguous election result. I seriously doubt that the voters were supporting violence. They may want attention from Beijing, as the cockroaches clearly do, but they reject the violent approach.

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KYli said:

That goes without saying. Carrie Lam's appeasement strategy is also to be blamed. If she has finished what CY Leung started, then the anti-establishment would not have that much time to regroup and rehabilitated after the Monk Kok riot in 2016. Hong Kong needs GST or VAT to diversify the reliance on land sales as main source of tax revenue. If Hong Kong can resolve housing affordability issue, then inequality would come down a lot. Special interests in HK revolved around the property prices. Property is used as a store of wealth in HK. Rent increases in retail have forced many small businesses to shut down. Rent increases in residential also forced many HK people to live in a cage like of space. But do the HK government and the pro-establishment parties have the will to face down the business tycoons and the anti-establishment at the same time.

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