Hong-Kong Protests


localizer

Major
Registered Member
We are well aware of bias currently but the western media is too strong and fixated on China. There is nothing a few dozen English speaking Chinese can do.

Talking about Kashmir is pointless on SDF because we all know the situation is likely very bad. When we bring it up to Western audience they flat out ignore. They know their hypocrisy but it is intentional because China might overtake them.

How bad things are we don’t know because of media blackout and we don’t speak Urdu and can’t read the social media . However, many of us frequent PDF to get update of things.

@timepass
 
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LesAdieux

Junior Member
Its really pathetic ..... even here on this very forum (Hong Kong Thread reached to 200 pages), while non of the member bothered to talk about the humanity crisis in Kashmir...where people are under siege for more than 60 days .... with several hundred lost their lives in last 60 days .... several are arrested .... ladies got rapped ..... and so on....

But non of members bothered to talk.... really pathetic .... pathetic...


WHERE IS THE HUMANITY...

think of Palestine, 70 years of occupation and all the atrocities against them, and they are the TERRORISTS!
 

Brumby

Major
It is funny the way you keep changing the subject and twisting my words. Firstly, I quoted the full provision from my initial response to you. Secondly, I have already stated in my initial response it is up to the court to decide but automatically the NPCSC holds the power of final interpretation. .
My apologies. I somehow inadvertently missed your earlier post that had the full text of Article 8. My bad.


" Thirdly, I never said that because I am from HK so I get to decide. Don't try to twist the facts. I only said that since I am from HK so I have knowledge about the Basic Law.
My replying point is being resident does not in itself automatically has inherent knowledge advantage as legal issues are ultimately decided by the courts.


u said, "the Emergency Ordinance is already superceded by the Emergency Law as provided in the Basic Law." which I have pointed out it is a complete false statement. The Emergency Ordinance is never superseded by the Emergency Law as these are a complete different thing which shows that you have no idea about the Basic Law. The Emergency Ordinance was amended by the legislature of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in 1999 which means The Emergency Ordinance is perfectly legal.
This is where we disagree on points of law. As the judicial review takes its course and ultimately decide, we will know its legal outcome.


Lastly, you are the one who declared and decided that Carrie Lam invoking the Emergency Ordinance illegal but I on the other hand said, "The only thing the opposition can do is to ask the court to declare the Emergency Law illegal but automatically the NPCSC holds the power of final interpretation."

Whilst you may be right that the NPCSC can ultimately upend any judicial decision, it will come at a political price. One of the complain from HK protestors is Beijing’s interference into the HK system. Such a move through the NPCSC will just reaffirm such a perception.

The HK protests is already generating unintended consequences and publicity like the NBA, Blizzard and Apple fallout and clearly showcasing how China is able to coerce actions of even US companies. This raises the credibility of the argument that Huawei somehow is independent and can act independently from China’s direction.
 

Brumby

Major
When you talk about these, please remind yourself that you are talking about a subject matter of comparative civilizations. China is not part your western civilizations, it does not want to be, and it never will be. China is not Japan or South Korea. China is China. Don't use the norms of your own civilization as a universal rule, because they are NOT.

China is NOT your typical nation state, which is a concept founded in the history and political science of the Europe. China is China, and China has always been China. Traditionally, China is not called a country, it was called an imperial court "天朝". Read enough Chinese history and literature, and you will know that traditional Chinese do not usually refer to their "country" as a country ("~国"), it was referred to an imperial court, or imperial dynasty. The idea of "country" has always been subservient to the idea of "the imperial court".

I think this is because China has many countries: Wu (吴), Chu (楚), Bashu (巴蜀), Qilu (齐鲁), Qinchuan(秦川), ....etc. These are the countries (国). China is above that. This is not just a simple territorial divide. Without the idea of China above, these "countries" can form their own organic nation states. These don't even have ethnic/racial divides like the Turks or Tibetans. They are all part of China simply because China is not a nation state. China is a civilizational state.

There are no existential conflict between China the civilization state, and the many little Chinas the (could-be) nation states. Because the idea of China is not on the same level of the nation state. Chinese people are born and raised with the awareness that they are sharing country with distinct people they have little commonalities with. I was aware of this as early as in elementary school. I was born in the city of Wuhan, basically in what I would call the Chu (楚) identity. I instant felt foreign when going to Jiangsu (江苏), or Guangdong (广东). But, I didn't feel foreign at all when going to Hunan (湖南) province, or anywhere else in Hubei (湖北) province, or south part of Henan (河南) province. I don't understand Henan or Hunan dialect/languages, or even some local dialects within Hubei province, but I didn't feel foreign there. But for Jiangsu and Guangdong, I did feel foreign there and I don't understand their language/dialect.

Similarly speaking, some neighboring language-culture regions within China forms a cluster, even if people don't typically understand each other's dialect, but they are close enough that they feel akin them. You will see people in Guangxi feeling a lot more kinship with people in Guangdong than the people in Guizhou. People in Fujian would feel a lot more kinship to people in Taiwan than people in Guangdong. This is the idea of the country, the nation state.

China is none of those could-be "countries". For the Chinese to put their Country above the Party (which is heir to the concept of the imperial court), they will only end up destroying China. Because their concept of a country is a bottom up concept, based upon each of their could-be nation states. This is why the Party is above the country. Because the without the Party, there is NO one country of China.
For example, the concept of national loyalty or patriotism for Chinese people is materialized in the phrase “報國”: to repay the "country" (presumably with one's own life). However, this does not really make sense in context of the phrase itself, because 報 also carries the meaning "to return...". This means that the "country" (國) in this case at least allegorically has a physical body, which somehow gave birth to this individual how wants to repay his life. In Chinese culture, an imperial court or the Party (CCP) can not give birth to anyone, these two concepts has the allegorical the male gender. In Chinese culture, "Country" has the female gender, allegorically.

In Chinese culture, the Imperial Court (which the CCP is heir to) is the Father Figure, and the Country (countries) is the Mother Figure. Chinese traditional culture calls on men to love and obey their father, while protect and take care of their mother. The “Country” represents the physical regions of the earth, which is female (or Yin, 陰).

Another evidence is in poetry. Traditional Chinese poets use the word "country" as a specific region(s) of land within in China. You see them use the term "北國" (Northern Country) or "南國" (Southern Country). These does NOT mean the northern/southern part of the (one) country, rather, these are different countries: the country of the north, or the country of the south. This is because you NEVER encounter even one person who says "eastern country" (東國) or "western country" (西國) to refer to the western/eastern part of China. This is because there are NO real countries in China that could be thought of as the country of the east, or country of the west.

Northern country could trace their roots all the way to Shang and Zhou dynasty, which are in what we call Northern China Plain today. Southern country can trace their cultural root to at least the Kingdom of Chu, which for a the majority of the history of the Later Zhou dynasty, was the emerging power that is a civilizational challenger to the Zhou Court. The southern country is also enriched with waves of migration from the central plain as a result of nomadic invasion for 20 centuries.
I am moving this conversation to the Chinese culture thread as it would be more appropriate.
 
Its really pathetic ..... even here on this very forum (Hong Kong Thread reached to 200 pages), while non of the member bothered to talk about the humanity crisis in Kashmir...where people are under siege for more than 60 days .... with several hundred lost their lives in last 60 days .... several are arrested .... ladies got rapped ..... and so on....

But non of members bothered to talk.... really pathetic .... pathetic...

WHERE IS THE HUMANITY...
Your focus and expectations are absurdly misplaced, of course nobody is talking about Kashmir in a thread about Hong Kong in an English language military forum about China.

Especially when most posters in this forum are not from Kashmir nor nearby, therefore are not particularly familiar with what is happening there, do not have the local language skills nor local insight to offer nor any special ability to evaluate any relevant insights offered.

Feel free to advocate in the relevant threads, interrupting other threads is not going to help.
 

KYli

Senior Member
Whilst you may be right that the NPCSC can ultimately upend any judicial decision, it will come at a political price. One of the complain from HK protestors is Beijing’s interference into the HK system. Such a move through the NPCSC will just reaffirm such a perception.

The HK protests is already generating unintended consequences and publicity like the NBA, Blizzard and Apple fallout and clearly showcasing how China is able to coerce actions of even US companies. This raises the credibility of the argument that Huawei somehow is independent and can act independently from China’s direction.
The unintended consequence is that the HK protest has united a new generation of mainland youngsters who have awakened to the double standards and hypocrite behavior of the west. Even some of my more liberal relatives in HK have been shocked to discover how these media distorted facts. As for Huawei, nothing can stop fear mongering and scare tactics so who cares.
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Interesting days ahead. I don't think it'd be very "interesting" for Anti-PRC /Anti-CCP rioters though. There may never be a "last laugh" - just a sigh and mumble.
No one showed up!' Hong Kong protests face acid test as movement enters fifth month
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Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I've been unavailable over the last 36 hours because I've been catching some flights.
Clearly there's been a bit of deviation from the thread topic and some heightened emotions on the matter. Off topic posts about Kashmir are also very much not appropriate for this thread.


The nature of this thread's actual topic means that it is very easy to become more intensely political and lead to heightened emotions and what one side considers to be a reasonable argument may be considered to be personal, egregious and offensive to the other.


The active moderators are currently under some discussion as to what the future of this thread will be, and what the boundaries for discussion could be.
 

Quickie

Major
First of all don't just label human crisis as Riots .... Please ..... people are detained ....

Secondly, based on what you say .... need to know the below ....

  • Where is the Humanity ...
  • If CIA/US will say something, then its a human issue....
  • What, If US nationals or Israelis were detained like that....
  • Is this forum is a CIA forum or ....

Come on guys..... for God sake.... feel the pain of humanity ....
You can try opening a thread on this topic but it'll be immediately deleted as per forum rules as this is a Chinese focussed English Language forum.
 

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