Hong-Kong Protests


The rioters have been setting up roadblocks. They would stop and examine vehicles and ask to see your wallets and ID. Their intention is to seek out pro-China supporters and off-duty police. Kids have been sent to nearby police station to record the license plates of off-duty police.

It has been confirmed by multiple HK forums but not confirmed by newspapers or videos yet. "Rumors also claimed that the rioters would ask for donation HKD $100 or more to allow vehicles to pass through the roadblocks."
That's cute. They're killing off their own support and just robbing people for money now. Even the CIA's probably like, "Whoa We didn't tell you to do that." And they're like, "Well, we figured we can make some money on the side from what you're paying. You gonna stop us?"

I'd like to see them roadblock a PLA tank column. The troops should play along too, surround them with soldiers first, have the captain ask them whether their military license plate was ok pass, ask them what the toll was and say, "We're short a few bucks; do you take Wechat pay, Alipay or are we gonna have to find another way to sort this out?"
If they shiver, cry, pee, give up their boss' names, then take their IDs and leave them on the road telling them to be good little boys from now on.

Mod edit: removed questionable part that suggests use of intimidation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

enroger

New Member
Registered Member
My post was responding to your post saying "You might want to read my post carefully before you decide which side I am on." I know which side you are on. You love Hong Kong. You want nothing but the best for Hong Kong. You want to have stability and have things turned back to normal, back to the rule of law. I am on your side.

However, you might need to hear this. This unconventional tactics of the US work ONLY on a society like Hong Kong. If you think the CCP is weak on unconventional warfare, and the US is strong on this, you are pretty much blaming the CCP for not being strong enough to counter the US unconventional warfare.

This is not right. The CCP doesn't get nearly enough freedom to set up institution in Hong Kong as the West does. The HK society has restricted PRC institutions, and uses the 1C2S as excuses. It's not even a leveled playing field for the CCP/PRC in Hong Kong.
If you edit your post you should indicate it.

Anyway the stuff you added is exactly what I want to discuss. My criticism is imbued with hope that CCP might improve their game. The way I see it is that CCP propaganda piece is way out of touch with local affairs. If you analyse how the west did it you'll find that they have local feelers (what I call boots on the ground), actively sniffing out sentiment among local forums, turning it into actionable data, fund local dissenter, politician, corporate...etc. They put in the work for, hence the success. CCP needs to mirror that effort.
 

solarz

Brigadier
That's cute. They're killing off their own support and just robbing people for money now. Even the CIA's probably like, "Whoa We didn't tell you to do that." And they're like, "Well, we figured we can make some money on the side from what you're paying. You gonna stop us?"

I'd like to see them roadblock a PLA tank column. The troops should play along too, surround them with soldiers first, have the captain ask them whether their military license plate was ok pass, ask them what the toll was and say, "We're short a few bucks; do you take Wechat pay, Alipay or are we gonna have to find another way to sort this out?"
If they shiver, cry, pee, give up their boss' names, then take their IDs and leave them on the road telling them to be good little boys from now on.

Mod edit: removed questionable part that suggests use of intimidation.
I'm actually a bit surprised it took them this long to figure this out.

Look at what happened during Katrina. When law and order breaks down, the looting and killing starts.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
If you edit your post you should indicate it.

Anyway the stuff you added is exactly what I want to discuss. My criticism is imbued with hope that CCP might improve their game. The way I see it is that CCP propaganda piece is way out of touch with local affairs. If you analyse how the west did it you'll find that they have local feelers (what I call boots on the ground), actively sniffing out sentiment among local forums, turning it into actionable data, fund local dissenter, politician, corporate...etc. They put in the work for, hence the success. CCP needs to mirror that effort.
The CCP is having its hand tied on Hong Kong. Your city does not even allow "National Security Law" to be passed. How on earth do you suppose the CCP can up their game? The CCP does not want to force your city to adopt the Laws it wants. However, your city's entire legal system is tailored to restricting CCP action, yet it does NOT restrict CIA actions.

Your city's legal system doesn't even allow PRC to start propaganda warfare against the West. Yet Western agents are running schools boards and grooming children to be anti-China from a young age. The CCP could turn the tides in Hong Kong very easily if it simply just march the troops in and takes over. However, their hands are tied on this matter. So, don't go on blaming Mainland for having ineffective propaganda.
 

solarz

Brigadier
If you edit your post you should indicate it.

Anyway the stuff you added is exactly what I want to discuss. My criticism is imbued with hope that CCP might improve their game. The way I see it is that CCP propaganda piece is way out of touch with local affairs. If you analyse how the west did it you'll find that they have local feelers (what I call boots on the ground), actively sniffing out sentiment among local forums, turning it into actionable data, fund local dissenter, politician, corporate...etc. They put in the work for, hence the success. CCP needs to mirror that effort.
The West holds a virtual monopoly on propaganda platforms. Google, Facebook, Twitter, these are all American corporations. Look at what happened to pro-Chinese activity on these platforms. These are not neutral service providers, not by a long shot!

"Improving their game" will not help when you are still playing in your rival's house, when they can shut you down whenever they like.

The only way for China to push back is to build its own platforms.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
If you edit your post you should indicate it.

Anyway the stuff you added is exactly what I want to discuss. My criticism is imbued with hope that CCP might improve their game. The way I see it is that CCP propaganda piece is way out of touch with local affairs. If you analyse how the west did it you'll find that they have local feelers (what I call boots on the ground), actively sniffing out sentiment among local forums, turning it into actionable data, fund local dissenter, politician, corporate...etc. They put in the work for, hence the success. CCP needs to mirror that effort.
Well, if you have to mirror your opponent's tactics, there are always the possibility of a trap. Besides, those ploys you are talking about, are offensive maneuvers, they are only good for rousing up something. I don't think the PRC really wants to rouse up things in Hong Kong. Even if the CCP use the exact same tactics to rouse up the pro-China side, the end result will be an even more torn up society. People will actually fight each other, and the society will become even more chaotic. The PRC wants stability in Hong Kong, it doesn't care about winning a mob fight.

The West holds a virtual monopoly on propaganda platforms. Google, Facebook, Twitter, these are all American corporations. Look at what happened to pro-Chinese activity on these platforms. These are not neutral service providers, not by a long shot!

"Improving their game" will not help when you are still playing in your rival's house, when they can shut you down whenever they like.

The only way for China to push back is to build its own platforms.
Well, solarz, that's both true and not true. Yes, it is true that all those platforms are US based. However, we do observe a lot of failed attempts of CIA trying to do the same thing in other places, as they are doing in Hong Kong. And there is also that example that the Russians has had a great success of swaying the US election by their unconventional propaganda campaign, using the platforms of their opponents: facebook, google, twitter, etc. But that's not the point.

These unconventional warfare are complex. For these ones, offensive and defensive maneuvers are entirely different kinds of animals. What enroger has suggested, are typical offensive maneuvers. Defensive maneuvers would include a whole bunch of other things that China has been doing quite successfully, in many places. As far as defensive maneuvers goes, I don't think either the US nor Russia knows how to do effective. The US establishment can't manipulate public opinions effectively enough to counteract Russian action in influencing the US election. In the same manner, Russia also has no way of diffusing CIA initiated protests and riots in this way.

Right now, the only defense I know of is the strategic government control on the internet, like in Mainland China. These kinds of offensive maneuvers may wreak havoc in an open society like HK, but it is useless in Mainalnd China.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Well, if you have to mirror your opponent's tactics, there are always the possibility of a trap. Besides, those ploys you are talking about, are offensive maneuvers, they are only good for rousing up something. I don't think the PRC really wants to rouse up things in Hong Kong. Even if the CCP use the exact same tactics to rouse up the pro-China side, the end result will be an even more torn up society. People will actually fight each other, and the society will become even more chaotic. The PRC wants stability in Hong Kong, it doesn't care about winning a mob fight.



Well, solarz, that's both true and not true. Yes, it is true that all those platforms are US based. However, we do observe a lot of failed attempts of CIA trying to do the same thing in other places, as they are doing in Hong Kong. And there is also that example that the Russians has had a great success of swaying the US election by their unconventional propaganda campaign, using the platforms of their opponents: facebook, google, twitter, etc. But that's not the point.

These unconventional warfare are complex. For these ones, offensive and defensive maneuvers are entirely different kinds of animals. What enroger has suggested, are typical offensive maneuvers. Defensive maneuvers would include a whole bunch of other things that China has been doing quite successfully, in many places. As far as defensive maneuvers goes, I don't think either the US nor Russia knows how to do effective. The US establishment can't manipulate public opinions effectively enough to counteract Russian action in influencing the US election. In the same manner, Russia also has no way of diffusing CIA initiated protests and riots in this way.

Right now, the only defense I know of is the strategic government control on the internet, like in Mainland China. These kinds of offensive maneuvers may wreak havoc in an open society like HK, but it is useless in Mainalnd China.
The Russian election meddling is more exaggeration than fact. At the end of day, the American government can order Facebook or Twitter to delete content and accounts at any time.

Even if Russia was behind the Fake News activity, they were tolerated because it served the purpose of one of the American factions. In contrast, China has no sympathetic faction in the US.

China's GFW is highly effectively at blocking foreign subversion, but it is also a double edged sword as it creates a segregated content sphere from the rest of the world.

What China needs to do now is to push its content platforms toward a global audience. We are already seeing the tip of this push with the growing popularity of Tiktok.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
should the WW3 happen according to your scenario, it'd be interesting to see who'd be the next post-WW1 Germany if you know what I mean (one of the WW1 losers who later caused WW2 -- would be WW4 then)
I just love you, Sensei. You actually finished my train of thought which I didn't felt PC enough to write down at the time.

My mind at that moment was pondering who will be the "Germany" in this dynamic. And I start to ponder which country (China, or Russia) has a leadership structure that looks more like Bismarck the titan of a strategic thinker, surrounded by zealous rednecks who doesn't even know what strategy means. Because this nation will be the new "Germany" that kicked out their own Bismarck and started wreaking havoc on the delicate Eurasian balance of power. Right now. I don't see either China or Russia having a leadership like that. Both are run by a large groups of seasoned politicians and strategists.

Of course, the country that descended into idiocy first will be the country that fires the first shot at the Eurasian balance of power, and will also be the country that's most likely to become the Fourth R***h.

Right now, the good thing is that China and Russia are pretty much locked in a balanced. China is a lot stronger than Russia, but Russia has enough strategic assets to effectively deter China. Both country has no will of turning on one another.
 

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