Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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MwRYum

Major
The organizers are arrested and gone. The new organizers are the HK public themselves.

As for endgame, I think we're expecting the HKSAR and Beijing gov't to respond in a week. HK can't keep up this disruption for a week. Even a day is already too much.

And I don't think people even thought of mainland China right now. They're waiting for the HKSAR gov't and Beijing for responses.

It won't stay grassroot and leaderless forever, eventually some new form of leadership will emerge, as nature and human instincts would have it.

Also, it won't remain peaceful for that long I assure you - the problems is beyond SAR's capacity, and beyond CY Leung's paygrade. Sure, he can resign or sacked or whatever, but who's going to take his place? Or dare to take his place? CE ain't a seat, it's a bloody bullseye in a firing range! I can bet you for USD100 that Henry Tang (the runner-up in the last CE election) is more than happy that he's not the one on that firing line! And that sentiment is shared by everyone.

And things will get worse when those fascists a-la "pan-democrats" took power - what manner of weed you're smoking that you'd have faith with them bunch of "little Adolf/Himmler/Goering/Goebbels"?

So, you can safely bet that on Oct 1st the insurgents will organize some massive rallies to jeer at PRC for all the world to see, venting their panted-up anti-China/CCP sentiment, and somehow Mainland authorities would "leaked" such stuff for the Mainlanders to see, fire up nationalistic rage that demand HK be "punished"; then on Oct 6th, the first working day after the Golden Week Holiday, them big wigs in Beijing step up on the rhetoric...

For all honesty, it's unimaginable that Beijing would give-in to the insurgents' demands without some solid, major concessions from the insurgents that Beijing can show to the Mainlanders this is indeed "win-win". By China's standards that mean a few prominent heads need to roll, and I do literally mean "heads" here.
 
I maintain that the majority of the protest and discontent in Hong Kong is mainly due to economic reasons. Hong Kong has always been a place of wide gaps between rich and poor. But in recent years it has gotten much worse. The reason in part is because China has gotten much wealthier and Hong Kong and its monetary and economic system has not adapted itself to this fact. The currency for one thing. The value of China's currency has risen about 25% since 2005 and the HKD has stayed the same. Since HK imports so much of its needs from China that it has help to drive up the cost of living for all people's in the territory. And of course as China gets richer and the currency gets stronger the inflation pressure on HK will increase. This will affect more and more people and will be a constant and growing source of discontent and resentment amongst the HK populace. People often blame Chinese tourists for the high inflation but that's wrong. When tourists spend their money in hotels, restaurants, taxi's and shops is when they put money into the pockets of the Hongkongese. Without those tourists arrivals Hong Kong would be much worse off today. The reason for the high inflation is in part because of the exchange rate. Hong Kong and the Hongkongese have to pay 25% more today from what they were paying 9 years ago just from the difference in the exchange rates. Of course the exchange rate is not the only source of inflation in HK. The HKD is pegged to the USD and that's the reason why the value of the HKD hasn't risen in all those years. HK doesn't have a independent monetary policy and is led by the nose by the FED. HK isn't even an afterthought for the policy makers in Washington or Beijing when they make up their monetary policies. But the effect on HK is enormous. And HK has no way to respond as it doesn't have its own central bank.

Then there is the 0% interest rates that HK has gotten from the FED. That has also helped to increase the gap between the rich and poor in HK as it on the one hand increase asset prices and on the other hand suppress wages. It has also helped in the feeding of the speculative frenzy in HK. The rich has benefitted from it and the poor has paid the price for it.

Then of course there are the speculators from China that has poured into the housing market in HK since the early 1990's. Once again because of the increase in wealth in China that too has ballooned to the extend that the local Hongkongese has been priced out of the market. Which of course is another source of resentment on part of the Hongkongese towards the Chinese.

I think the solution will be radical monetary reforms that means either Hong Kong re-calibrate the peg to the USD or they get rid of the peg all together and set up their own central bank. They then will print the HKD either as a free floating currency or one that is pegged to a basket of currencies that includes all of the most important regional and global currencies. This salution is more preferable because this gives HK a means to respond to the monetary policies coming in from both China and America. But rather that will happen is another question. Since this means that a lot of vested interest will be hurt and those interest (read plutocrats) are in control of the political process. A lot of real estate moguls in HK will have to go bust or lose a lot of money if HK had a independent central bank with a (responsible) interest rate policy could cause a correction (read collapse) in the real estate market. I don't think they would like that. Would a democratic regime change all of this ? Well, in the case of the US, Europe and Japan it didn't. That is in part why HK is in such a mess today.

I wonder how many of the people who are protesting today understand this.:rolleyes:

A note on those Chinese tourists.

The reason why there are so many Chinese tourist shopping in HK or even in America and Europe is because of China's policy to tax the toys of the rich. The tariffs and taxes in China has made brands like Louise Vuitton and Chanel twice as expensive as in those other places. But the rich will have their toys one way or the other! So the policy has backfired and the rich instead of shopping inside China they shop outside of China in HK, America or in Europe. If they would reverse that policy then there will be fewer people buying stuff in HK but that is going to be bad for the HK economy. But you can't have everything in life.;)

Glad to hear a voice of reason based on facts.

Once again these HK protesters and their supporters should look in the mirror as well as educate themselves about the bigger picture beyond blaming the HKSAR government or PRC for everything bad and ask themselves if they are doing what it takes to make things better or are they just throwing a temper tantrum at the easiest target while their real problems and the world passes them by.
 
You're from HK. You should know the people has never been exposed to this stuff since the 30s. By HK standards, it's excessive, not to mention you have students 2 days earlier who are pepper sprayed after having their hands put up.

And whatever pinch of salt you're taking, all I know is most of the things I'm receiving are from first-hand accounts.

Also, the pan-democrats were arrested very early on and the rest of the movement since was spearheaded by the street folks. Some even said the 3 OC starters' jobs are done.

You might want to double check your history, there were protests and quite some chaos in HK in the '60s at the height of the Cold War and the Cultural Revolution in China. And there was some sporadic looting in HK during a short period around the 1989 crackdown in Beijing.
 
You have to be a Chinese to understand this. Historically, Hong Kongers generally consider mainland and overseas Chinese to be inferior. I believe this is due to the fact that at least in the past on an economic scale, HK Chinese were ahead of the rest. Just some kind of competitive thing going on within the Chinese community.

Don't forget that a significant number of HKers are either refugees or descendants of refugees from all the waves of turmoil in greater China in the past hundred plus years, so they may well have a personal or family history gripe against how things turned out in China regardless if it was better for others or the country or civilization as a whole.
 

MwRYum

Major
I maintain that the majority of the protest and discontent in Hong Kong is mainly due to economic reasons. Hong Kong has always been a place of wide gaps between rich and poor. But in recent years it has gotten much worse. The reason in part is because China has gotten much wealthier and Hong Kong and its monetary and economic system has not adapted itself to this fact. The currency for one thing. The value of China's currency has risen about 25% since 2005 and the HKD has stayed the same. Since HK imports so much of its needs from China that it has help to drive up the cost of living for all people's in the territory. And of course as China gets richer and the currency gets stronger the inflation pressure on HK will increase. This will affect more and more people and will be a constant and growing source of discontent and resentment amongst the HK populace. People often blame Chinese tourists for the high inflation but that's wrong. When tourists spend their money in hotels, restaurants, taxi's and shops is when they put money into the pockets of the Hongkongese. Without those tourists arrivals Hong Kong would be much worse off today. The reason for the high inflation is in part because of the exchange rate. Hong Kong and the Hongkongese have to pay 25% more today from what they were paying 9 years ago just from the difference in the exchange rates. Of course the exchange rate is not the only source of inflation in HK. The HKD is pegged to the USD and that's the reason why the value of the HKD hasn't risen in all those years. HK doesn't have a independent monetary policy and is led by the nose by the FED. HK isn't even an afterthought for the policy makers in Washington or Beijing when they make up their monetary policies. But the effect on HK is enormous. And HK has no way to respond as it doesn't have its own central bank.

Then there is the 0% interest rates that HK has gotten from the FED. That has also helped to increase the gap between the rich and poor in HK as it on the one hand increase asset prices and on the other hand suppress wages. It has also helped in the feeding of the speculative frenzy in HK. The rich has benefitted from it and the poor has paid the price for it.

Then of course there are the speculators from China that has poured into the housing market in HK since the early 1990's. Once again because of the increase in wealth in China that too has ballooned to the extend that the local Hongkongese has been priced out of the market. Which of course is another source of resentment on part of the Hongkongese towards the Chinese.

I think the solution will be radical monetary reforms that means either Hong Kong re-calibrate the peg to the USD or they get rid of the peg all together and set up their own central bank. They then will print the HKD either as a free floating currency or one that is pegged to a basket of currencies that includes all of the most important regional and global currencies. This salution is more preferable because this gives HK a means to respond to the monetary policies coming in from both China and America. But rather that will happen is another question. Since this means that a lot of vested interest will be hurt and those interest (read plutocrats) are in control of the political process. A lot of real estate moguls in HK will have to go bust or lose a lot of money if HK had a independent central bank with a (responsible) interest rate policy could cause a correction (read collapse) in the real estate market. I don't think they would like that. Would a democratic regime change all of this ? Well, in the case of the US, Europe and Japan it didn't. That is in part why HK is in such a mess today.

I wonder how many of the people who are protesting today understand this.:rolleyes:

A note on those Chinese tourists.

The reason why there are so many Chinese tourist shopping in HK or even in America and Europe is because of China's policy to tax the toys of the rich. The tariffs and taxes in China has made brands like Louise Vuitton and Chanel twice as expensive as in those other places. But the rich will have their toys one way or the other! So the policy has backfired and the rich instead of shopping inside China they shop outside of China in HK, America or in Europe. If they would reverse that policy then there will be fewer people buying stuff in HK but that is going to be bad for the HK economy. But you can't have everything in life.;)

The de-pegging or reform the pegging policy has been push around for years because this is not the first year we're seen this, inflation that largely due to the continual devaluation of the Greenback, but every time it get shot down as soon as it was mentioned.

And as for the Mainland's import tariffs, it covers more than just the luxury items, it covers everything; pair with the scandalous national shame of China can't produce safe products like milk powder and so forth, that not only the rich but the rising middle income group flock to HK or elsewhere to source those things that are now comparatively more affordable. And I've always saying that in the Mainland sites, that when China tear down the import tariffs, making buying imported stuff in Shanghai or Beijing or Guangzhou is just as cheap as would be in HK, HK will be finished.
 
Thanks for understanding from our side of the story and how we felt. A lot of us have been saying, we've got nothing to lose. At $18,000/month for $5million housing, there's also basically nothing that's even guaranteed for us anymore. There's a reason even Montreal students were taking the streets years back. We know what it's like, because we're the group feeling the full blunt of these unsustainable conditions for our living.

So why aren't these protesters protesting the direct reasons for these conditions?
 

MwRYum

Major
So why aren't these protesters protesting the direct reasons for these conditions?

That has a lot to do with how the media feeding the masses, "simplifying" the problem.

Blame the rich, blame those Mainlander horde...sure it's easier for the general public to consume, but all the efforts are diverted away from more practical solutions, those that'd challenge the vested interests.

And not to mention the operation of Colored Revolution driven in the shadows by the Western powers.
 
Actually overseas Chinese are viewed alright. I think the true contempt is for the Communist China and not really the people. In the early years(way before the handover), mainland Chinese immigrants were viewed as brethens, industrious, etc. And to consider we donated the most for Sichuan 2008 under the slogan "we share the same blood", you can see it's not the people we hate. It's certain things and behaviours that we can't tolerate that they're doing inside HK, such as taking a sh!t in the middle of the mall and cutting in line.

If HKers are enlightened then their first reaction would be to educate rather than make fun of or heap disdain upon the MLers who may be behaving this way out of ignorance or habit but not out of malice. Only in cases where these behaviors are out of malice, which I believe are few and far in between, should HKers direct appropriate contempt and punishment upon the particular offender.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
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Registered Member
If HKers are enlightened then their first reaction would be to educate rather than make fun of or heap disdain upon the MLers who may be behaving this way out of ignorance or habit but not out of malice. Only in cases where these behaviors are out of malice, which I believe are few and far in between, should HKers direct appropriate contempt and punishment upon the particular offender.


In a perfect world, everyone would consider this while observing distasteful behaviour from an outgroup.

Most people only have a limited quantity of patience.
 

texx1

Junior Member
In a perfect world, everyone would consider this while observing distasteful behaviour from an outgroup.

Most people only have a limited quantity of patience.

Very true. Unfortunately the damage has been done. Coupled with undeserved sense of superiority HKers tend to display, I am afraid it would be very difficult for protesters to garner support from MLers.
 
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