Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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Re: Chinese General news resource thread

do the students believe the city's present circumstances is due to decisions made by the central government on appointing HK's leadership rather than simply a force of nature? (By the sounds of it, the answer is yes)

Not just the students, it's everyone, and we believe it's both.
For example the tear gas, the warnings to fire rubber bullets, and about to deploy the army. Who ordered this? The CCP.
Other things included the surge of properties being bought off by investors from China, which cooked the prices of housing from $1million HKD to $5 million HKD, making HK ranking 1st in world in terms of most unsustainable housing. (Vancouver coming in close second), when average income for HKers is $18,000/month.

Other things include competing for HK's already strained resources. Tons of ML mothers crossing the border to give birth, flooding the maternity wards that rendered local mothers out of service for them.

Etiquette issues


Naturally, when people feel like they don't have control and when times are hard they more tend to believe their voices and opinions can or could have resulted in a better outcome. In this case, they're seeking the "two systems" side of the "one country, two systems" phrase far more than the "one country" side.

HK don't want to be independent, so we don't worry about the one country thing. It's just that CCP doesn't respect HK, and we are seeing it live now.

Last few questions: what were the HKers original opinion regarding the point in the Basic Law saying universal sufferage would be the "ultimate goal," or however it was described? Did they truly believe it would be upheld?

We are skeptical and quite pessimistic because we all knew we're talking about CCP who we're dealing with, but did hope for the best. Everything changed the past 2 weeks. HK went through much without going through too much conflict in the beginning, so we did give CCP a chance. It's not like we rejected them right out of the box after '97.

Also, have any protesters considered the long term, once in 2047 when the "1 country 2 systems" would be abolished and HK would effectively be reintegrated into China proper?

I think we all wanted to fight for our own future and rights ASAP before 2047 hits because we had even worse/gloomy views of life after 2047, when they can almost take everything back. We had no idea what's gonna happen, and we know things ain't gonna look bright for Hong Kong.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

I have no problem with peaceful protest so long as its not disruptive, but I have absolutely no time whatsoever for protestors who deliberately try to cause serious disruption.

You have the right to express your views and feelings, you do NOT have any right to stop other people from doing their jobs or going about their business.

I cannot help but roll my eyes that the people supposedly demonstrating about rights and freedom are deliberately infringing the rights and freedoms of their fellow citizens to get their message across.

If your message is compelling enough and have enough resonance, people will listen and support you even if you are one man speaking softy. But if you have to physically block road and prevent others from getting to work or going to where they need/want to go to get them to listen to you, then maybe your message isn't quite as strong or have as much support as you would like to think.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

I have no problem with peaceful protest so long as its not disruptive, but I have absolutely no time whatsoever for protestors who deliberately try to cause serious disruption.

You have the right to express your views and feelings, you do NOT have any right to stop other people from doing their jobs or going about their business.

I cannot help but roll my eyes that the people supposedly demonstrating about rights and freedom are deliberately infringing the rights and freedoms of their fellow citizens to get their message across.

If your message is compelling enough and have enough resonance, people will listen and support you even if you are one man speaking softy. But if you have to physically block road and prevent others from getting to work or going to where they need/want to go to get them to listen to you, then maybe your message isn't quite as strong or have as much support as you would like to think.

We tried everything from dialogue and having the CE come forth, EVEN last night, which was why the students were outside. They sat for days waiting for CY to come out, and he NEVER DID. This is exactly what we meant by him as a fking puppet who doesn't care about HK and totally answers to CCP only and don't care HKer's welfare. CCP and HKSAR ignored the public's pleas or requests. No one would use civil disobedience if it ain't the last resort.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

We tried everything from dialogue and having the CE come forth, EVEN last night, which was why the students were outside. They sat for days waiting for CY to come out, and he NEVER DID. This is exactly what we meant by him as a fking puppet who doesn't care about HK and totally answers to CCP only and don't care HKer's welfare. CCP and HKSAR ignored the public's pleas or requests. No one would use civil disobedience if it ain't the last resort.

Everything except patience, compromise and trust it seems.

You call CY a puppet, but ever stop to think who might be pulling you and your fellow protestors' collective strings?

Why resort to civil disobedience so quickly?

Far from a last resort, occupy central has pretty much been a first response.
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

We tried everything from dialogue and having the CE come forth, EVEN last night, which was why the students were outside. They sat for days waiting for CY to come out, and he NEVER DID. This is exactly what we meant by him as a fking puppet who doesn't care about HK and totally answers to CCP only and don't care HKer's welfare. CCP and HKSAR ignored the public's pleas or requests. No one would use civil disobedience if it ain't the last resort.

Nothing would be different if CY came out. The protestors have made up their minds already that if you are not with them you are against them.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

Nothing would be different if CY came out. The protestors have made up their minds already that if you are not with them you are against them.

So not even need to come out and face the citizens? He hasn't visited any groups for a while.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

It seems you guys don't understand how we feel. Maybe because you guys are not in our shoes.

I have nothing to say anymore.
 

Brumby

Major
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

I have no problem with peaceful protest so long as its not disruptive, but I have absolutely no time whatsoever for protestors who deliberately try to cause serious disruption.

You have the right to express your views and feelings, you do NOT have any right to stop other people from doing their jobs or going about their business..

The issue is not disruption but whether it is peaceful.
If your message is compelling enough and have enough resonance, people will listen and support you even if you are one man speaking softy.

Quote one example in history that supports such an assertion without involving the mass movement of people that goes with it. In other words, an idea or vision itself doesn't change things without people movement.
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

So not even need to come out and face the citizens? He hasn't visited any groups for a while.

See my previous post. For him to come out to face the protestors would be utterly pointless.

It seems you guys don't understand how we feel. Maybe because you guys are not in our shoes.

I have nothing to say anymore.

That's the issue isn't it? The whole thing is based on emotion, any rational thought has been gone entirely.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

See my previous post. For him to come out to face the protestors would be utterly pointless.



That's the issue isn't it? The whole thing is based on emotion, any rational thought has been gone entirely.

I always have a lot of respect for you, Engineer, and Plawolf. However I hope you guys can understand how hard I feel right now, to watch my people still in the streets, staying in the streets, chanting slogans, many not leaving, being treated harshly, fired at with tear gas grenades, threatened with rubber bullets, and even possible PLA deployment.

This is my hometown, my people. Yes it's emotions now, but it's pain, seeing my people in pain and still standing strong and hard.
 
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