H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Moonscape

Junior Member
Registered Member
If it does have supersonic speed, what is stopping h-20 from also carrying BVR missiles like PL-17 and also carry a big radar. That way they can self escort. Essentially an even bigger version of J-36, launching AA missiles, carrying big radar, acting as an AWACS, directing drones. The only thing it will lack is maneuverability, but that can be mitigated by staying far behind. Essentially a huge missile truck. Such a platform will be very useful.

Following up on my earlier conjecture, I wonder if the H-20 wasn't originally intended to be supersonic, but after the Russia-Ukraine conflict started, the relatively good performance of the Tu-160 convinced XAC/PLAAF that supercruise + stealth is needed for a next gen bomber.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
This might be a silly question but what are the chances H-20 makes a debut appearance during the September parade?
 

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
I'm not sure why you are conflating transport/airliner type of aircraft with flywing bombers.
Well, that's all big in-service airplane experience China currently has. When it comes to flying wings, there are only relatively smaller drones, where in-flight balance issues for example don't even come up. Wz-x is a new, just unveiled development. It's not in service.
This is why H-20 will be so important in the first place, it and the C929. Last big bastion of a/c design China hasn't shown yet are big, long range aircraft.
Those aren't magic. They aren't simple either, prone to delays and cost overruns. Ultimately, even in the US, counting planes reaching prototype stage, failure rate for multi-engine strategic bomber development programs is over 30%. Soviets had something similar.
What they are aiming for in H-20 will be higher than B-2 in requirements.
That's for sure, B-2 is a 35 year old design. But that's combat, avionics and stealth. I don't see how *Aircraft* difficulty part changed since then. If anything, B-2 can be more ambitious than B-21 in this case, as it's both hi- and lo- aircraft, not a glorified powered kite.
 

Tomboy

Junior Member
Registered Member
lol, people still think B-2 can just penetrate modern military airspace undetected.

this is a very interesting discussion from Cute Orca on H20 requirements and I think it does show B-2 raid got some ppl in China thinking

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so the proposal here is something with extremely strong penetration capability, stealthy, weapon bay and combat radius. It would need to be able to fly out to 6000 km away to launch hypersonic missile that can go for 2500s @ mach6.5 (~5000km) range. If you launch from lightly defended Northern Canada, 5000km range missile would cover all of USA.

It is possible that the long wait for H-20 is just due to the much higher requirement placed upon it, now that J-36 can already cover missions within 2IC. In order to have something that can strike CONUS from mainland China, you need breakthroughs in material science, aerodynamic, propulsion and fuel.
It'll be difficult though, 5000km range hypersonic cruise missile is still going to be extremely long and heavy(Probably as large as the DF-21D). You'll also need a large booster stage to boost the missile to the speeds required to ignite its scramjet. B-2 sized flying wing is nowhere near large enough for internal carriage of such weapons, which IMO means H-20 would take on a more exotic design. But H-20 is meant to make its debut in less than 18 months so I guess we'll see if XAC disappoints or not.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Antonov didn't help in Y-20 design. its purely a XAC design.

there is no doubt, Russia-Ukraine helped China a lot in past but it has over now.
From what I understand Antonov helped with the initial concept work but the actual final design was done in China.

You also have to see that whenever they claim Antonov designed a wing, be it for ARJ-21 or Y-20, aerofoil design and wing wind tunnel testing was always done by TsAGI in Russia. In the Soviet Union and later it was always TsAGI who was responsible for this. Ukraine never had such aerodynamics researchers or facilities.

China has several flying wing drones. The main issue with making a flying wing is achieving controlled flight i.e. the fly by wire system. The drone also needs the same problem to be solved.
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
If complex decision making is not involved then there's really no need for a manned platform. For example, if the job is just to get to a predetermined point and launch some long range conventional missiles at a target guided by a different platform, you can easily do that with an UAV. No EW suite is needed, just simple comms and GPS that'll work within friendly air space is all that's necessary. It's basically a cheaper to operate reusable booster. For quicker delivery of ordnance, might as well just use an actual reusable booster since it probably doesn't cost any more than a supersonic stealth platform anyway when you factor in the manufacturing and R&D costs.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
If it does have supersonic speed, what is stopping h-20 from also carrying BVR missiles like PL-17 and also carry a big radar. That way they can self escort. Essentially an even bigger version of J-36, launching AA missiles, carrying big radar, acting as an AWACS, directing drones. The only thing it will lack is maneuverability, but that can be mitigated by staying far behind. Essentially a huge missile truck. Such a platform will be very useful.
You never want a big missile truck to be within even BVR shooting range in a serious war as being within BVR shooting range of an enemy = either already inside or being seconds away from their BVR range too.

Air targeting and ground targeting is also optimized for different things ie air targeting is heavily radar based while ground targeting uses TV, IR, laser, direct command, etc due to RF clutter; radar makes a comeback for anti-shipping, but the RCS involved are so huge, its not a challenge. If you're attacking ground targets, your sensor suite needs the anti-ground stuff.

All that is weight and room in addition to strike munitions that are much heavier and larger than air to air missiles.
 
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