H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Gloire_bb said:

3 large Chinese planes represent, respectively, initial design from Antonov, a loose amphibian development of a transport(repeating similar possibility from the very same antonov), and a medium civilian aircraft of a most conservative design possible.

Moreover, all 3 just about entered service.

You can have all the material science, and still fail at a very basic design of a plane. It isn't insulting, it's respecting the task.

Mitsubishi did just that rather recently, for example, on a very straightforward task.

Intercontinental flying wing, compromised by deep VLO requirements, is a kind of aircraft where you can fail. Not appreciating it is not helpful.

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I'm not sure why you are conflating transport/airliner type of aircraft with flywing bombers.

guancha folks, who are not exactly normally all that boastful, have said emphatically that developing something like WZ-X is not very difficult.

As such, I would take their word and the state of current material science and what we are seeing in WZ-X as pretty good evidence that developing something like B-2 is quite straightforward.

What they are aiming for in H-20 will be higher than B-2 in requirements.

tphuang said:

I'm not sure why you are conflating transport/airliner type of aircraft with flywing bombers.

guancha folks, who are not exactly normally all that boastful, have said emphatically that developing something like WZ-X is not very difficult.

As such, I would take their word and the state of current material science and what we are seeing in WZ-X as pretty good evidence that developing something like B-2 is quite straightforward.

What they are aiming for in H-20 will be higher than B-2 in requirements.

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The deputy commander of the PLAAF and official representative in NPC has made it clear that, China has the ability to develop H-20 without bottlenecks..



as you said, XAC is now aiming for higher requirements thanks to advancement in material science.. a super B-2 ??
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he also pointed out, Y-20 initial design came from Antonov, which is a complete lie.. its nothing but another cope from anti-China shills. Antonov didn't help in Y-20 design. its purely a XAC design.

there is no doubt, Russia-Ukraine helped China a lot in past but it has over now.

If we all agree that the proposed H-20 having both high speed as well as all aspect stealth, then it is more advanced than the B-2 like design. Essentially it is a J-36 level of design. Basically skipping the 70's and 90's generation of design and go straight into the next generation. As if China going from J-7 straight into J-36, skipping J-10 and J-20.

I don't want to talk about jump generations and such. It's more about what you are capable of developing and what you need. H-6K is sufficient for the 2IC scenarios that China had been dealing with. However, distance between 2IC to CONUS is quite far. J-36 can cover a lot of scenarios already to 2IC and Northern Australia. If you want to be able to hit CONUS, the requirement is very high for current technology. If they can refuel over Russia, that makes things easier, but unclear if that's an option.

Building something like B-2 for PLA is not all that useful right now if you want to have a system that's survivable for next 30 years. We are not in the 90s anymore. Engine tech is better, RF tech is better, material science is better, stealth is better and aerodynamics should be better.

So you are also going to see higher requirements.

TK3600 said:

If we all agree that the proposed H-20 having both high speed as well as all aspect stealth, then it is more advanced than the B-2 like design. Essentially it is a J-36 level of design. Basically skipping the 70's and 90's generation of design and go straight into the next generation. As if China going from J-7 straight into J-36, skipping J-10 and J-20.

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If it does have supersonic speed, what is stopping h-20 from also carrying BVR missiles like PL-17 and also carry a big radar. That way they can self escort. Essentially an even bigger version of J-36, launching AA missiles, carrying big radar, acting as an AWACS, directing drones. The only thing it will lack is maneuverability, but that can be mitigated by staying far behind. Essentially a huge missile truck. Such a platform will be very useful.

tphuang said:

guancha folks, who are not exactly normally all that boastful, have said emphatically that developing something like WZ-X is not very difficult.

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I would absolutely contest the assertion that the guancha folks are not that boastful lol

tphuang said:

As such, I would take their word and the state of current material science and what we are seeing in WZ-X as pretty good evidence that developing something like B-2 is quite straightforward.

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Do you actually think something like the RQ-180 is comparable to a B2 or B21? If you start extrapolating the development of drones to manned aircraft, there is no limit to the amount of absurd equivalencies you could draw.

totenchan said:

Do you actually think something like the RQ-180 is comparable to a B2 or B21? If you start extrapolating the development of drones to manned aircraft, there is no limit to the amount of absurd equivalencies you could draw.

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Comparing RQ-180 to WZ-X is equally an absurd equivalency. One is smaller than a B-21, while the other is B-2 sized. And from an engineering and technology point of view, size is more of a technical challenge than merely manned vs unmanned. All things equal, unmanned is more difficult from a technology and engineering standpoint than manned equivalent.

totenchan said:

Do you actually think something like the RQ-180 is comparable to a B2 or B21? If you start extrapolating the development of drones to manned aircraft, there is no limit to the amount of absurd equivalencies you could draw.

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how quietly you ignored the actual size of WZ-XX and compare it with RQ-180.. LOOL

And from an engineering and technology point of view, size is more of a technical challenge. Whether it is unmanned or manned. aerodynamics , stealth and materials come into play for this size of a machine.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Comparing RQ-180 to WZ-X is equally an absurd equivalency. One is smaller than a B-21, while the other is B-2 sized.

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I was not comparing the RQ-180 to the WZ-X. I was comparing the comparison of the WZ-X and the H-20 to the comparison of the RQ-180 to the B21. The RQ-180 and the B-21 should have around the same wingspan. Do you consider them to be equivalent?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

And from an engineering and technology point of view, size is more of a technical challenge than merely manned vs unmanned.

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Is wingspan the only measure of size you are using?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

All things equal, umanmed is likely more difficult from a technology and engineering standpoint than manned equivalent.

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All things are not equal. Even if unmanned was more difficult (by what measure?) than manned development, the fact remains that they are very different and require different design tradeoffs. And unmanned versus manned aside, what about the difference between designing a reconnaissance aircraft and a strategic bomber?

sunnymaxi said:

how quietly you ignored the actual size of WZ-XX and compare it with RQ-180.. LOOL

And from an engineering and technology point of view, size is more of a technical challenge. Whether it is unmanned or manned. aerodynamics , stealth and materials come into play for this size of a machine.

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Are you unable to read or something?

I see the new Chinese stealth drone as an ultra-long-range platform to be used primarily against the U.S., possibly armed. Obviously, it wouldn't have a very large payload — let's say 5-10 tons — but enough for nuclear strikes and attacks on lightly defended inland U.S. airbases. What do you think? From this perspective, the H-20 would be a heavier bomber designed to operate beyond the second island chain. I envision a two-pronged system, so to speak.