Food & Resource Security

tacoburger

Junior Member
Registered Member
What China really lacks is GMO crops/livestock, especially meant for human consumption. Yes I know that China is allowing a small amount of GMO crops to be planted this year, but it's way too small scale and slow, not to mention it's mainly going to be used for livestock and not for human consumption yet. China imports so much of it's food and with an increasing geopolitical tensions and worsening climate events, it's important for China to be fully self sufficient in food. There's issues with GMO crops yes, bad business practices, safely issues, too much dominance by western firms etc etc, but all are solvable.

The safely issue is mook, considering that GMO crops have been a thing for 3 decades at this point, have been subjected to tens of thousands of studies, billions of mouths without issues and much of the crops that China imports is GMO anyway. Bad business practices/monopolistic behavior aren't an issue with the right polices and control that the government has over the market. Dominance by western companies, again are not an issue with China's control over the market and China's own companies being pretty good enough to compete on their own merit.

Chinese scientist have had success with breeding and planting improved crops over the years, like salt-alkaline resistant crops, hybrid rice etc etc but that's via selective breeding and forced mutation, methods that were outdated decades ago. Modern genetic engineering methods are hundreds of times faster and cheaper, but they aren't being used nearly as much by China because of the heavy regulation surrounding GMO crops, there's no incentive if there's no market and chinese companies aren't being allowed to plant in chinese soil.

There's so much potential for GMO crops. Honestly companies like Monsanto are way too concerned with yield, profits and selling roundup. You could have crops that's extremely high in protein as much as meat, that's rich in certain vitamins, omega fatty acids, that need vastly less water/fertilizer, has a much longer shelf life. Or for non consumption purposes, like mangrove like plants that can actually reduce the salinity level of the surrounding soil, plants that absorb various toxic heavy metals, soils that improve soil health via increased biosequestration and nitrogen fixture. This kind of GMO crops don't make much profit and thus not much funding and attention, will probably need the government to step in if they are to be deployed in large scale.

And then there's livestock. A lot more risky, but the rewards are great. Just increased resistance to the common diseases that plague farmers would be a massive boost to the industry, to say nothing of increased growth and reproduction rates. Or more exotic options like an all female chicken line that reproduces asexually.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Actually, if anything, I think there is too much focus on genetic engineering and selective breeding in agriculture in China, and not enough on actually modernizing the rest of the agricultural sector. Try reading statistics on use of refrigeration in China for example. Particularly for fruits and vegetables it is massively behind advanced economies.

In the Soviet Union, they kept needing to import grain for feed every year, because they neither had enough vehicles to collect all the harvest, nor did they have enough grain storage facilities, so a lot of the grain just rotted on the field. Russia has been spending huge amounts of money on grain elevators. In the Soviet Union quite often animals were kept in facilities without centralized heating unlike other countries at similar latitudes like Japan or Canada. This meant animals used more energy from food just to keep themselves warm. From what I know of China, a lot of times farms are small, poorly mechanized, and poorly supplied in terms of equipment.

Sometimes soil remediation is also necessary. Brazil only managed to unlock production in the Cerrado after growing soy varieties adequate for the local environment and mixing lime into the soil to reduce acidity for dozens of years.

This article describes the changes in hog farms in China. I think this is one of the necessary changes.
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Last edited:

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Actually, if anything, I think there is too much focus on genetic engineering and selective breeding in agriculture in China, and not enough on actually modernizing the rest of the agricultural sector. Try reading statistics on use of refrigeration in China for example. Particularly for fruits and vegetables it is massively behind advanced economies.
Chinese eat far more fruits and vegetables per capita than all other countries (according the CCTV). I believe most of the vegetables are sold locally.
Can you please provide a link to the stats?

In the Soviet Union, they kept needing to import grain for feed every year, because they neither had enough vehicles to collect all the harvest, nor did they have enough grain storage facilities, so a lot of the grain just rotted on the field. Russia has been spending huge amounts of money on grain elevators. In the Soviet Union quite often animals were kept in facilities without centralized heating unlike other countries at similar latitudes like Japan or Canada. This meant animals used more energy from food just to keep themselves warm. From what I know of China, a lot of times farms are small, poorly mechanized, and poorly supplied in terms of equipment.

Sometimes soil remediation is also necessary. Brazil only managed to unlock production in the Cerrado after growing soy varieties adequate for the local environment and mixing lime into the soil to reduce acidity for dozens of years.
The Chinese government is funding the building of "high standard field“ (
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) which are leveled, suitable for machineries and good water drainage.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
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GDP per capita and cold warehouse per urban residents of nine countries in 2018 [4]. CW denotes the cold warehouse.

"The significant development of the cold chain could potentially reduce the food losses in China. It is reported that China lost about 12 million tons of fruits, 130 million tons of vegetables, and 6.9 million tons of meat products owing to improper storage and refrigeration in 2015 (Hu et al 2019). It is also reported that 8% and 25% of grains are lost at the storage and transportation stage every year in 2014 due to poor storage and transportation conditions (Jiang and Jiang 2015). Consider that China consumes 60% of vegetables, 30% of fruit and meat, and 40% of eggs and aquatic products of the total world production (Wang and Yip 2018), even a small reduction in the percentage of food losses achieved by the cold chain can be significant in the absolute food quantity saving."

"Despite its rapid growth, the development of cold chain is facing several challenges. First, cold chain resources per capita are still relatively low. In 2018, the cold warehouse per person in China was 0.075 m3, while that data for India was 0.111 m3 and for the US was 0.40 m3 (Salin 2018). Those data suggest that the capacity of cold chain facilities in China still have a large room to expand."
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
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View attachment 114843
GDP per capita and cold warehouse per urban residents of nine countries in 2018 [4]. CW denotes the cold warehouse.

"The significant development of the cold chain could potentially reduce the food losses in China. It is reported that China lost about 12 million tons of fruits, 130 million tons of vegetables, and 6.9 million tons of meat products owing to improper storage and refrigeration in 2015 (Hu et al 2019). It is also reported that 8% and 25% of grains are lost at the storage and transportation stage every year in 2014 due to poor storage and transportation conditions (Jiang and Jiang 2015). Consider that China consumes 60% of vegetables, 30% of fruit and meat, and 40% of eggs and aquatic products of the total world production (Wang and Yip 2018), even a small reduction in the percentage of food losses achieved by the cold chain can be significant in the absolute food quantity saving."

"Despite its rapid growth, the development of cold chain is facing several challenges. First, cold chain resources per capita are still relatively low. In 2018, the cold warehouse per person in China was 0.075 m3, while that data for India was 0.111 m3 and for the US was 0.40 m3 (Salin 2018). Those data suggest that the capacity of cold chain facilities in China still have a large room to expand."
India at 0.111 m3 cold storage while China is only at 0.075 m3?

(X) for doubt.
 

tacoburger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Actually, if anything, I think there is too much focus on genetic engineering and selective breeding in agriculture in China, and not enough on actually modernizing the rest of the agricultural sector.
There has been a total ban on GMO food crops being grown in china until this year, and at the the rate that China is giving out permits, it's gonna be another two decade before they outnumber non-GMO crops. I really don't see how China could give less of a shit really. And yeah, there's other parts of the sector and supply chain that needs upgrading but shit like refrigeration and storage is so far removed from genetics that I really don't see how they are draining resources from each other. China can easily focus on both issues.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
Alright hear me out:
Is it possible to use old coal/metal mines and depleted oil wells as storage depots for China's strategic petroleum reserve?
It should ideally be a lot larger than the current half a billion barrels but obviously building enormous tanks is not cheap and uses a lot of space. This could be a solution if it's technically possible and the environmental impact isn't too extreme.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Alright hear me out:
Is it possible to use old coal/metal mines and depleted oil wells as storage depots for China's strategic petroleum reserve?
It should ideally be a lot larger than the current half a billion barrels but obviously building enormous tanks is not cheap and uses a lot of space. This could be a solution if it's technically possible and the environmental impact isn't too extreme.
Just do what the US does and pump old salt mines full of gas/petroleum, pretty fool proof and cheap.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Can't win can we Chinese?-in the past "starving Chinese children" now China is a food hoarder-all Chinese know that famine will always follow war and chaos and disease as well-one generation away really -I also prepare well before hand with rice,salt,oils,beans,flour can/ meats etc.Like China I BOUGHT these with my own money while these western losers spend their money on drugs/alcohol-when the SHTF they can starve and go to the nearest variety store where their "friendly"indian shop keeper can sell them AA batteries for 20 dollars each and 50 $ for a package of hotdogsImperfect as the Chinese gov't is all people recognize that food security ,building of damms for freshwater security etc is the right course to take NOT building a marble boat in Beijing water park-late Qing
Don’t forget sugar and powdered seasonings, like onion, garlic, pepper, cinnamon, et c.!
 
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