F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Air Force Brat]

And how much time and money was wasted during the arguments over the redesigns which dropped commonaliIty from 75% to 25%?

I recall reading a Rand report about how it would have been a lot cheaper to develop and field 3 separate aircraft.

Andrew, there ARE 3 separate aircraft, that have the advantage of sharing 25% of their airframes/systems.... each of those separate airframes perform in an outstanding manner. To be very honest, the airframe I had the least faith in, has proven to be the first and most successful in its immediate impact on the USMC and bringing them up to speed as a commanding force..

 

[Air Force Brat]

we've been through this: there's no connection between F-35 issues and foreign aircraft issues, actually I find it to be a rather poor diversion LOL

also repeating myself, the thing is if the Pentagon would, or wouldn't, have been better off if it had spent F-35 money differently

Actually we always compare aircraft types against one another, look at the Allied Forces against German fighters in WW-1, fast forward 20 years and Allied Forces against German fighters V 2, the Allied Forces VS Chinese and Russian fighters in Korea, and the Allied Forces against Vietnamese/Chinese fighters in Vietnam!

So as we seek to answer your questions, we have to look at potential adversaries and their current and future aircraft, and ask ourselves what is it worth to be prepared, what would it cost to NOT be prepared?? we've found that out in each of those previous wars, we were NOT prepared, and we paid a very heavy price in personnel and territory!

Finally as a friend who is NOT a US taxpayer, living in a country that is NOT an F-35 partner?? do you have dog in this fight??

I do, I intend to do Everything in my power to make sure that we are NOT caught sleeping again. Is the F-35 superior to any 4th Generation fighter? what about our potential adversaries future 5th Generation fighters? As a US taxpayer, as an informed citizen, building the F-35 in numbers is absolutely the best answer for not only the United States, but our partners and friends who are building/buying/flying F-35's..

So its absolutely imperative that we are aware of our adversaries and their ultimate capabilities, its also very helpful to mark their progress and difficulties in order to judge how well we are achieving our objectives? In looking at the Chinese and Russian attempts to field a 5 Gen, our own F-35 has made very satisfactory progress, and if called on, would "put the wood" to the bad guy..

That is not only my considered opinion, but the USAF, USMC, USN, and all of our F-35 partner's and purchaser's, they are paying a LOT of money for this airplane, they would NOT be doing so if they had any doubt abouts its capabilities, and that's would should bring you to the truth!

Finally trying to live in the past and "make do" with new F-15s, F-16's, F-18's or even the lovely Eurofighter,,, that's a loser!

 

[azesus]

F-35 is new school concept of network-centric style of battle making war seems like playing Command Conquer video game, of course using old school "Jousting" style metric F-22 it's better but thats "old school" It's like I am using iPhone but you say G1 brick phone are better because its "bigger" haha, lol

 

[Jura The idiot]

...

Finally as a friend who is NOT a US taxpayer, living in a country that is NOT an F-35 partner?? do you have dog in this fight??

...

hold it, hold it,
inside
Mar 30, 2017

interestingly Heritage Foundation Defense Budget Proposal Calls for Cuts to Air Force’s F-35 Acquisitions

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Conservative group recommends $632 billion NDAA

:
"John Venable, a senior research fellow for defense policy at the Heritage Foundation who helped craft the proposal, told reporters during a private breakfast Tuesday morning that the decrease in the Air Force's purchase plan for F-35As would free up money for different acquisition programs within the service." and so on

John Venable

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John “JV” Venable, a 25-year veteran of the U.S. Air Force who served in three combat operations, is a senior research fellow for defense policy at The Heritage Foundation.

I know about your comment Mar 31, 2017

John Venable gets my Of the year award for the surest method of driving up costs and killing capability. Stoopid, Stoopid, Stoopid! From the Heritage Foundation?

but still

 

[AndrewS]

Andrew, there ARE 3 separate aircraft, that have the advantage of sharing 25% of their airframes/systems.... each of those separate airframes perform in an outstanding manner. To be very honest, the airframe I had the least faith in, has proven to be the first and most successful in its immediate impact on the USMC and bringing them up to speed as a commanding force..

Then why not start out with 3 separate programmes in the first place, which happen to share a common engine and cockpit, because that is the situation today.

I reckon the process of going from 75% commonality to 25% commonality caused at a bare minimum of a 2 year delay, with the attendant costs.

I also recall hearing/seeing how the F-35B lift fan foisted so many design compromises on the Air Force and Navy versions.

Yes, the USMC has benefited, but given they only account for 15% of total orders, wouldn't it have been better if they had a separate program?

It almost certainly would have cost less, and the shorter development speed actually may have resulted in the USMC aircraft going into service earlier than what we see today.

Plus look at how the military jet industrial base in the USA has been decimated with Lockheed Martin winning the winner-take-all F-35 program, granting Lockheed Martin a monopoly on fighter jets.
So the US government has no choice but to buy from Lockheed Martin, both now and in future decades.

That is a bad situation to be in.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Then why not start out with 3 separate programmes in the first place, which happen to share a common engine and cockpit, because that is the situation today.

I reckon the process of going from 75% commonality to 25% commonality caused at a bare minimum of a 2 year delay, with the attendant costs.

I also recall hearing/seeing how the F-35B lift fan foisted so many design compromises on the Air Force and Navy versions.

Yes, the USMC has benefited, but given they only account for 15% of total orders, wouldn't it have been better if they had a separate program?

It almost certainly would have cost less, and the shorter development speed actually may have resulted in the USMC aircraft going into service earlier than what we see today.

Plus look at how the military jet industrial base in the USA has been decimated with Lockheed Martin winning the winner-take-all F-35 program, granting Lockheed Martin a monopoly on fighter jets.
So the US government has no choice but to buy from Lockheed Martin, both now and in future decades.

That is a bad situation to be in.

Number 1, its totally senseless to replicate three design management teams, so one design team, three different aircraft to each customers specification, the Air Force, Marines, and Navy are ecstatic with their respective airplanes... Yes I am specifically referring to the Aviators and Aviation associated personnel, they are very happy with the capabilities of each of these aircraft..

What specific design compromise have you read about for the A model, what specific design compromise for the C model?? be specific, not generic pie in the sky, show some industry/DOD documentation? be specific please, I just want to know where you're coming from??

I will say that your assertion that three smaller, more divergent programs would have saved money?? there is no factual basis to make a statement like that, as Mr. Head constantly reminds us, large scale reduces cost, smaller, or truncated programs are much more expensive..

I'm extremely proud of LockMart's outstanding performance, they have brought us an affordable program, functional aircraft, and adaptability,,, your assertion that buying from LockMart has decimated fighter aircraft industry is nonsense, LockMart is the prime, Boeing and Northrup are "subcontractors".

Northrup for instance is building all of the "center fuselages",, from my best recollection Boeing is building the wings, and various and sundry groups in different companies are building the rest of the airplane, so we are in an awesome place. We have a very nice airplane whose cost is coming down, and as numbers go up, cost will continue to come down... cutting the buy would drive the price of each of these three aircraft UP.

 

[Jura The idiot]

second guessing and counters to second guessing here are good just for history, as soon (in 2020?) the block buy will be authorized,

and at that point the F-35 program will be too big to fail;

let's wait and see how F-35s then perform in real world operations,

and how LockMart manages production and sustainment

Jun 6, 2018

...


as I said, it's all about Lockheed Martin (

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) stocks

EDIT
wonder how's Lot 11 doing after "handshake" Jul 28, 2018

here's the part of

Lord Touts Streamlining; Previews Industrial Plan, Software Blacklist, F-35 Trades

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related to F-35:

"Pentagon acquisition, technology, and logistics czar Ellen Lord ... said the services are "working through the trades right now" on what to do about retrofitting older jets to the current 3F standard. Readiness rates of the jet in USAF and Marine Corps service have suffered because vendors are making similar but not interchangeable parts for multiple configurations of the aircraft; necking down to fewer configurations would increase parts supply for both production and sustainment. Lord said it will be decided by the end of the calendar year whether the Air Force will upgrade its training jets to combat configuration, and whether the Marine Corps will actually retire some more of its earliest F-35s. She is focused on getting as many aircraft as possible to the TR, or Technical Refresh, Level 2 and 3.

Sooner, though, she will preside over a Defense Acquisition Board confirming what will be included in the "Block IV" upgrade plan that will incorporate new technologies in the F-35 over the next decade.

At her level, "Block IV ... is what we're focused on. We're working very closely with the services, they know exactly what the elements of Block IV are," Lord said, "both in terms of software and hardware. We meet on it regularly so there is no ambiguity there. We are doing...basic systems engineering work to decompose what the end state needs to be in terms of capability, down into projects, associating time and cost with them."

While she confirmed there is now a "handshake deal" between the government and Lockheed Martin on the Lot 11 buy of F-35s, she refused to give any details or say how much the unit price will decline with the next batch of the fighters.

Lord also noted that a study which recommended that the F-35 Joint Program Office give way to separate service program offices is an eventual but not near-term plan. A key finding of the study, though, was that "We probably needed the integration offices to have a little bit more focus. And there was a commitment by the services to put a more senior individual" in place "as the interface to the JPO." Lord said for the time being, international partners still need a centralized entity to work with, and she noted that there are 130 foreign partners working in the JPO in key managerial positions on the multinational project."

 

[anzha]

The US Marine Corps' stealth F-35B Lightning fighter jet could fly its first combat mission within days, according to several US defense officials, who told CNN that the fifth-generation aircraft are currently aboard the USS Essex amphibious assault ship and should soon be in a position to conduct airstrikes over Afghanistan.

The USS Essex has already sailed from the Gulf of Aden into the North Arabian Sea and is expected to move into the Persian Gulf in coming days, one official said.

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Real world performance demo requested, I heard?

 

[Air Force Brat]

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Real world performance demo requested, I heard?

I really don't think so?? I really don't, this airplane will deploy when the situation arises that "fits", although it will NOT sit in "reserve" like the raptor, they will exercise this aircraft soon, but a "demo"??? I just don't think that sounds like us,,, so do you have a source?

Demo requested by whom, and of whom, where??? Mid East

 

[anzha]

Demo requested by whom, and of whom, where??? Mid East

The source is whoever CNN used.

However, it's been rumored for a lot time the F-35B was going to be going into combat this year and the Marines would lead the way.

I was joking about the combat demo requested. I was referring to this thread.

Jura said:

let's wait and see how F-35s then perform in real world operations,

So I was kidding around the Marines were doing a combat demo on demand. Didn't want to do a winky and I guess I'll use /jk or something.