F-22 Raptor Thread


paintgun

Senior Member
nice topic indeed, there is severe lack of interest on the T-50 here in SDF
but remember gents, anything you say is your own opinion and therefore it is debatable and up to other people what to think of it

and YF-23 remains the most exotic plane ever built
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: US Air Force F-22 Raptor, News, Pictures and Videos"

I don't know about that paint... I still have a soft spot in my heart for the SR71 an the SU47 Burkut
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
nice topic indeed, there is severe lack of interest on the T-50 here in SDF
but remember gents, anything you say is your own opinion and therefore it is debatable and up to other people what to think of it

and YF-23 remains the most exotic plane ever built
Heh! Heh! Heh!, I would have to say "prejudice" against the T-50, which one could say is the most attractive of all the aircraft represented on this thread, maybe the YF-23 second on looks, and guys "looks sell airplanes".

But the YF-23 has a better RCS due to integrating the Horizontal Stabs and Rudder, and we have the Ruddervator, helps reduce drag and rcs, but it gives up a lot in the agility department, and the F-22 will kick the lovely YF-23s butt any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not only does the F-22 have a very rapid pitch transition, it has OVT, and mass centralization, which means the CG is located midpoint or so on the fuselage, hence supermaneuverability, the much better of these two aircraft won out, the T-50 is likely number 2 in agility, but gives up a lot in RCS, so is almost NOT in the fifth gen competition IMHO! brat
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: USAF F-22 Raptor (With PAK-FA Comparison)

Welcome aboard Sam, I fully expected to make the 4th post in this lovely thread started by the brilliant Mr Head, and El-Jefe, you have truly outdone yourself with this one, and yes I am in love all over again, by illustrating why the F-22 Raptor is and remains the only TRUE fifth gen aircraft in the world, excluding even the F-35. Like certain ships that reset their class, the Raptor remains at the head of the class by virtue of its many virtues, and the in-ability of any of its near peers to approach the throne....

Although the Defense Talk boys love to beat on the Raptor, and love up the F-35, by down playing the importance of an individual weapons platform, they are missing the point, the Raptor set the standard with supercruise, super agility, and true stealth, all one need do is run the Mark One Eyeball over these three aircraft, the F-22 is as slick as a bar of soap, only the J-31 appears to integrate this same "design philosophy" into her construction, the F-35 tries, but it is robust bird, likely will fall far short of the Raptor, and has earned her the "ThunderHogge" appellation. I will say that your developing bird appears to mirror the bar of soap, but we shall see when she flys. brat
why do you think my avatar is the Raptor? it's the gold standard in combat aircraft.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Re: USAF F-22 Raptor (With PAK-FA Comparison)

Wow wow wow hang on there. T-50 above J-20? You're just asking for it there bringing all this 'which is best' topic in here.

T-50 with a better RCS than J-20? Have you seen the planes?
No, T-50 egal J-20 he seems, actually in test but J-20 use its canard are bad for stealth.
T-50 use typical Sukhoi design from Su-27 with the air inlets under the fuselage but have a small tail.

I think J-20 it is essentially a long range bomber as Su-24/34, for the moment some sources say he is only a demonstrator, no prototype...
He use a design close Mikoyan 1.44.

For rcs frontal/back
F-22 : 0.0001*/0.001 *40 dBsm
F-35 : 0,0013/0,01
T-50 : 0,01
J-20 : 0.01 about

B-2 wonderful but more large : 0.0001-0,01, F-117 :0.025m2.
After this size the aircraft is low observable as F-15SE 0.1-0.01m2.

The forms are very important, alignment plans, S-shaped air inlets etc.. but the quality of materials RAM is critical, and American manufacturers have the most experience because F-117 use this materials from mid 1970's.

Jeff have well summarized these things on a very technical subject, that much can be developed.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
For long range air to air combat

F-22 detect T-50 to 40 nautical miles away.
F-35 detect T-50 to 30 nautical miles away.
T-50 detect F-22 to 15 nautical miles away.
T-50 detect F-35 to 28 nautical miles away.

F-35 use one " less good" radar, less power, 1200 trm, against others, even today with ASEA radars, a large plane with a big nose to accommodate a large radar remains a big advantage.

For close combat
T-50 are the the most agile, F-35 less good but US aircraft use sensor fusion and F-35 have the AN/AAQ-37 distributed aperture system (DAS) which compensates to prevent the pilot earlier and decoy missiles.
In more F-22 is less vulnerable to IR missiles with more low infrared-emissions.

The US gun are much more powerful for their firing rate, use Gatling system.

The best F-22 and T-50/F-35 egal.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: USAF F-22 Raptor (With PAK-FA Comparison)

No, T-50 egal J-20 he seems, actually in test but J-20 use its canard are bad for stealth.
T-50 use typical Sukhoi design from Su-27 with the air inlets under the fuselage but have a small tail.

I think J-20 it is essentially a long range bomber as Su-24/34, for the moment some sources say he is only a demonstrator, no prototype...
He use a design close Mikoyan 1.44..
Where to start, I would agree, the Mikoyan 1.44 "may" have been one of the design inspirations for the J-20, but the J-20 uses the distant coupled canard as opposed to the "close coupled canard" of the Mig 1.44, to say that the J-20 a long range bomber is to miss the point, if you read Dr. Songs paper, the idea was to compete with and defeat the F-22, Dr. Song is well aware of the Raptors strengths and went about attempting to build an aircraft, he knew he didn't have the engines to do that, so he attempted to achieve those goals through superior aerodynamics, a very tall order??? No doubt

Your opinion that the T-50 is kinemetically superior is also highly suspect due to the vastly superior engines of the Raptor, I agree that the T-50 will be very good, but I have seen the Raptor fly up close and personal, and I would suggest in a real guns-up scenario, the Raptor would emerge victorious, the suggestion that the Euro-Fighter was vastly superior was disputed by the Raptor boy, in fact the recent Red Flag at Nellis, left everyone impressed with the other fellows bird???? So all of these aircraft share some design familiarity, the J-31 appearing to mirror the Raptor????? who knows, great thread, and great comments all. brat
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: USAF F-22 Raptor (With PAK-FA Comparison)

No, T-50 egal J-20 he seems, actually in test but J-20 use its canard are bad for stealth.
T-50 use typical Sukhoi design from Su-27 with the air inlets under the fuselage but have a small tail.

I think J-20 it is essentially a long range bomber as Su-24/34, for the moment some sources say he is only a demonstrator, no prototype...
He use a design close Mikoyan 1.44.

For rcs frontal/back
F-22 : 0.0001*/0.001 *40 dBsm
F-35 : 0,0013/0,01
T-50 : 0,01
J-20 : 0.01 about

B-2 wonderful but more large : 0.0001-0,01, F-117 :0.025m2.
After this size the aircraft is low observable as F-15SE 0.1-0.01m2.

The forms are very important, alignment plans, S-shaped air inlets etc.. but the quality of materials RAM is critical, and American manufacturers have the most experience because F-117 use this materials from mid 1970's.

Jeff have well summarized these things on a very technical subject, that much can be developed.
I don't have hard data but your 'data' is at best mere speculation. While I am positive the Raptor has better RCS I doubt it is in the order of 100X better than J20.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Does anyone recall reading this article?

Chinese Smuggler Tried to Sneak Carbon Fiber for Fighter Jets, Feds Claim

The U.S. has busted up a plot to smuggle tons of carbon fiber to China, where the material would ostensibly be used in the construction of new fighter planes. That might seem worrying, but if the allegations are true, it’s probably a comforting sign. That’s because if Beijing needs to illegally import the ultra-tough polymers from America, that means we don’t have to worry too much about China’s upgraded air force.

The case involves a 40-year-old Chinese man named Ming Suan Zhang. On Wednesday, Zhang was charged in federal court in the Eastern District of New York with “attempting to illegally export aerospace-grade carbon fiber” from the U.S. to China, according to the criminal complaint and affidavit (.pdf) unsealed in court this week. Zhang pleaded not guilty, according a report by The New York Times, and his lawyer said Zhang was a sports equipment manufacturer who believed he was “caught in something he didn’t fully understand but he believed to be legal.”.........for more
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PRC is still behind in new material technology vital in reducing radio cross section figures.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
In another forum a retired US Navy Captain (Surface Warfare specialist) posted this...

War Reserve Modes (WRM). For those who are unfamiliar with the term, a WRM refers to parameters of combat systems (to include missiles) operation that are kept under wraps until "the big one...a real shooting war.

I'll use the SPY-1 radar systems found in both the Ticonderoga-class cruisers, and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers as an example. There is it's advertised contact acquisition range, the demonstrated contact acquisition range, and then there's the WRM contact acquisition range. No one has ever seen that, nor will they unless and until the situation warrants it. The other side has them too; everyone does.
Nuff said..
 

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