F-22 Raptor Thread


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USAF Looking at F-22 Alert Mission, Organization Changes Following Critical GAO Report
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The Air Force will explore alternatives to using F-22s to stand alert for homeland defense, and possibly change Raptor squadron organizational structures following a Government Accountability Office report that found the current status of the aircraft limits their effectiveness and readiness.

The GAO, in a
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, recommends the Air Force reassess its F-22 structure to find other ways to more effectively organize and increase Raptor training opportunities, as the need for more high-end air superiority readiness is required.

"Air Force's organization of its small F-22 fleet has not maximized the availability of these 186 aircraft," the GAO report states. "Availability is constrained by maintenance challenges and unit organization."

The report states F-22 pilots are not meeting their minimum yearly training requirements for air superiority missions, and the use of F-22s for exercises and partnership-building deployments take away from the pilots' ability to train. For example, Raptor pilots who deploy for partnership building exercises will not fly the aircraft the way they would in combat because of security concerns regarding the F-22's unique stealth capabilities.

Additionally, F-22s stand alert for homeland security missions in both Alaska and Hawaii since USAF does not have other fighter aircraft in these locations. This alert mission takes aircraft and pilots away from being available for any other purpose. Additionally, an F-22 pilot in Hawaii told Air Force Magazine in a
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the squadron at Hickam is limited by the amount of red air it has available for high-end training.

The Pentagon agreed with the GAO's assessments, and said in response the Air Force is both looking at possibly changing organization structures to address the issue, and even looking at possibly using other aircraft for homeland alert missions in Alaska and Hawaii.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
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USAF Looking at F-22 Alert Mission, Organization Changes Following Critical GAO Report
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Here again Jura, this is the GAO, they really don't have all the facts, starting with actual aircraft numbers, 186 ? 186 what?, I believe the actual number is 183, of those 183 aircraft how many are combat coded?
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USAF Looking at F-22 Alert Mission, Organization Changes Following Critical GAO Report
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and buried in the muck?? when deployed in "Partnership exercises, the Raptor will NOT Be Employed in its full blown "Stealthy" mode", because of security concerns!

So all that gobble-de-gook about Typhoons gunning Raptors?? that's pure BS, PURE BS! when employed in partnership exercises, the Raptor is basically operating as a 4Gen with the exception of shaping!

and the GAO doesn't even know the actual number of aircraft, its currently at 183 due to attrition, good grief, its the "Guvment" accounting office....
 
Here again Jura, this is the GAO, they really don't have all the facts, starting with actual aircraft numbers, 186 ? 186 what?, I believe the actual number is 183, of those 183 aircraft how many are combat coded?


and buried in the muck?? when deployed in "Partnership exercises, the Raptor will NOT Be Employed in its full blown "Stealthy" mode", because of security concerns!

So all that gobble-de-gook about Typhoons gunning Raptors?? that's pure BS, PURE BS! when employed in partnership exercises, the Raptor is basically operating as a 4Gen with the exception of shaping!

and the GAO doesn't even know the actual number of aircraft, its currently at 183 due to attrition, good grief, its the "Guvment" accounting office....
Brother in the post you quoted it's your source (AirForceMag) saying "The Pentagon agreed with the GAO's assessments" etc.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
Here again Jura, this is the GAO, they really don't have all the facts, starting with actual aircraft numbers, 186 ? 186 what?, I believe the actual number is 183, of those 183 aircraft how many are combat coded?


and buried in the muck?? when deployed in "Partnership exercises, the Raptor will NOT Be Employed in its full blown "Stealthy" mode", because of security concerns!

So all that gobble-de-gook about Typhoons gunning Raptors?? that's pure BS, PURE BS! when employed in partnership exercises, the Raptor is basically operating as a 4Gen with the exception of shaping!

and the GAO doesn't even know the actual number of aircraft, its currently at 183 due to attrition, good grief, its the "Guvment" accounting office....

This is wrong. Raptors and European allies are generally teamed up in exercises. What happens that as part of the preparation for the exercises pilots are doing basic fighter maneuvers together. And that's the part where the F-22 is often only the second winner against the Eurofighter and co.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Brother in the post you quoted it's your source (AirForceMag) saying "The Pentagon agreed with the GAO's assessments" etc.

I agree that Raptor pilots are probably not getting enough "high end" training, I also believe the Raptor needs to be "preserved"! With a limited number of airframes, we need to conserve those airframes for the "real deal"....

Unlike our near peers, we don't have the assurance that the other team is working hard to "de-conflict", in fact it appears that the OP-FOR is increasingly provocative..

So I agree in principle, you don't need or want F-22's to intercept Russian long range bombers, when an F-15 or F-16 two ship is far more efficient for that mission...

Obviously the answer is to get the F-35A's into this "mission set" as quickly as possible and to save your "hard core training" for those pilots/aircraft that would be the "point of the spear",,, I believe the F-35A would also work well alongside the F-22 to provide flying hours and proficiency training, while sparing those F-22 airframes unneeded wear and tear..

So in principle I agree, but I find it very odd that the GAO does NOT have an accurate airframe count,,, I do agree that operating the F-22 with our friends as a 4Gen is a waste of precious airframe hours, and indeed the F-35 should begin to pick up most of that load, particularly as our "partners" will also be operating their F-35s in a similar manner.

I should also remind you Bub, that the "Pentagon" is populated by "warrior politicians",, when you arrive you're a warrior?? maybe??, but by the time you leave, you are a politician,, so what you understand "tactically" has to be "tempered", by political reality?
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
This is wrong. Raptors and European allies are generally teamed up in exercises. What happens that as part of the preparation for the exercises pilots are doing basic fighter maneuvers together. And that's the part where the F-22 is often only the second winner against the Eurofighter and co.

and you're likely right, as I said the F-22 is actually operating in those exercises as a 4++Gen,, its not actually allowed to function as it would in a real conflict, because you would never see it,, the only message would be that "you're dead"! So instead that stealth advantage is gone, its quite possible a Raptor could end up on the front end of a Typhoon, but not too likely, in reality the F-22 still retains a crushing advantage..

An Su-57 or Su-35 would be a suitable match for the F-22, but without OVT, other platforms simply lack the "power and pitch authority" of the F-22, and the F-22 retains a decisive thrust advantage at that.
 
..., but I find it very odd that the GAO does NOT have an accurate airframe count,,,
at p. 9 (13 of 38 in
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) there's

"Figure 3 shows the basing locations of the F-22 fleet, and the numbers of aircraft at each base."

sentence followed by this graphics:



4+24+23+14+23+23+31+24+20 = 186

(apparently these are the aircraft they counted EDIT I'm just a bad accent little guy LOL you tell me what's the true number)
 
Last edited:

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
at p. 9 (13 of 38 in
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) there's

"Figure 3 shows the basing locations of the F-22 fleet, and the numbers of aircraft at each base."

sentence followed by this graphics:



4+24+23+14+23+23+31+24+20 = 186

(apparently these are the aircraft they counted EDIT I'm just a bad accent little guy LOL you tell me what's the true number)
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
at p. 9 (13 of 38 in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) there's

"Figure 3 shows the basing locations of the F-22 fleet, and the numbers of aircraft at each base."

sentence followed by this graphics:



4+24+23+14+23+23+31+24+20 = 186

(apparently these are the aircraft they counted EDIT I'm just a bad accent little guy LOL you tell me what's the true number)
 

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