But you do make reference to the 20th C.
1/You talk of the consumer society pre Regan
2/ Explaining the ability of people to cross borders in the Euro Zone. Well the Eurozone is really the successor to the ECCas i think it was known in the 60's and the fall of the Soviet Block in 1990's expanded it even futher.
never mind though , as its irrelevant to the current situation i suggest we drop it.
I really dont know why we are debating this for as Im in total agreement with you. Even the point that it sucks to even entertain the thought of bailing out the West especially if nothing is really going to change.
Where we disagree is the fall out, while you think its manageable I have my doubts.
I think the Eurozone will bounce back and still be a major player in the world economy A snub may result in a fortress Europe mentality where Chinese products may not be so welcome. AS you said earlier China has still has a lot to accomplish, and its going to take every dollar she can earn.
1. How can you not mention Reagan when his policies were a main cause of a lot of the problems we have today, but that's still a long way off from WWII, which incidentally was the point I was making to begin with.
2. Considering that most of the former Soviet bloc weren't part of the Eurozone for most of the 20th century this hardly means anything.
Of course Europe can bounce back, Japan is still one of the largest and most productive economies in the world in spite of its crash in the 90s, that still doesn't mean it's as strong as it was in the 1980s, the same will go for Europe once it this crisis is over. The breakdown of the international order as is will of course cause suffering and problems like any such situation would, but ultimately it is the fault of no one but the Europeans and Americans with their own policies and the Chinese should draw out as many concessions as possible from this crisis.
Euro crisis
- Thread starter delft
- Start date
will she even be alive when the crisis is over? will the eu have the same member countries by that time? Will there even be an eu in 10 yrs time? predictions are almost always easy to make and even easier to ignore when it comes out less than accurate. The western media has been predicting china's economy to collapse for some time now. yet as they were hoping to see china burst her bubble first, iceland, US, greece, italy, spain etc... went south first and it didnt stop the china naysayers from predicting china will be next. So lets not play their nasty game, anyone can make a prediction when they have little to show for.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
No good deed goes unpunished.
If Europe didn't need a significant amount of China's help, you wouldn't hear them dissing China because they wouldn't have bothered and China wouldn't even be mentioned. They know this which is why the Europeans are acting like they're Bernie Madoff and how so many people wanted to be included in his exclusive little club of investors during its prime. It's beneath them to be in a position where they have to essentially beg for money from the less developed world especially China. Some journalists are saying China is exploiting the situation before anything has even happened. A shot across the bow by the paranoid. It's been written by those warning Chinese participation that China wants to break up the EU. If it's happening, they're doing that on their own with no help from China. So if China contributes, that falls under China's conspiracy to break up the EU? But if China doesn't help and Europe collapses, doesn't that also breakup the EU? Guess what? China has every right to exploit everything as possible. The Europeans cheated China with Galileo. What says that they won't do it here? Why not demand as much as possible? You know they're looking at China as a major source for money. Are they going to reward lesser contributors or even countries that gave no money to help Europe more than China. Galileo says they would. Just look at the most simplist thing someone would expect to those that help out... respect. That can't even give that. They would be more insulted that they had to go to China for help. And to offset that they would have to disrespect just to salvage from the insult they had to go to inferior China with hat in hand. Look at the annual world opinion poll the BBC conducts every year. The worst opinions comes from these beggars in wolf's clothing. Why should their continued disrespect be rewarded? In their desperation, they envoke how China needs the European market attempting to spin their needs into being China's precarious position of vulnerablilty. Yeah but what about the good stuff that happens for China. They said it themselves that a breakup of the EU serves in China's favor. It's going happen if China helps or not according to their contradition. Geo-politically... a lot of articles lately of how the US is shifting their assets to Asia to counter China. If the EU collapses, this is going to be equivalent to "Who lost China?" during the Cold War. Look at what mess arises in and around Europe as a result. What influence they have over the developing world will suffer severely. And all this happens with China doing absolutely nothing. What money they didn't give Europe, will instead serve to insulate China. There's no guarantee any money is going to help the European situation because just like the Greeks, they don't want to lose anything they already have so none of it is negotiable. Sound familar? Copenhagen... again. The Europeans couldn't even sacrifice anything themselves for their own campaign to save the environment and expected the developing world to hold back and sacrifice so they can maintain their rich lifestyles. They didn't show responsibility there. What makes anyone think they'll be responsible here with someone elses money?
If Europe didn't need a significant amount of China's help, you wouldn't hear them dissing China because they wouldn't have bothered and China wouldn't even be mentioned. They know this which is why the Europeans are acting like they're Bernie Madoff and how so many people wanted to be included in his exclusive little club of investors during its prime. It's beneath them to be in a position where they have to essentially beg for money from the less developed world especially China. Some journalists are saying China is exploiting the situation before anything has even happened. A shot across the bow by the paranoid. It's been written by those warning Chinese participation that China wants to break up the EU. If it's happening, they're doing that on their own with no help from China. So if China contributes, that falls under China's conspiracy to break up the EU? But if China doesn't help and Europe collapses, doesn't that also breakup the EU? Guess what? China has every right to exploit everything as possible. The Europeans cheated China with Galileo. What says that they won't do it here? Why not demand as much as possible? You know they're looking at China as a major source for money. Are they going to reward lesser contributors or even countries that gave no money to help Europe more than China. Galileo says they would. Just look at the most simplist thing someone would expect to those that help out... respect. That can't even give that. They would be more insulted that they had to go to China for help. And to offset that they would have to disrespect just to salvage from the insult they had to go to inferior China with hat in hand. Look at the annual world opinion poll the BBC conducts every year. The worst opinions comes from these beggars in wolf's clothing. Why should their continued disrespect be rewarded? In their desperation, they envoke how China needs the European market attempting to spin their needs into being China's precarious position of vulnerablilty. Yeah but what about the good stuff that happens for China. They said it themselves that a breakup of the EU serves in China's favor. It's going happen if China helps or not according to their contradition. Geo-politically... a lot of articles lately of how the US is shifting their assets to Asia to counter China. If the EU collapses, this is going to be equivalent to "Who lost China?" during the Cold War. Look at what mess arises in and around Europe as a result. What influence they have over the developing world will suffer severely. And all this happens with China doing absolutely nothing. What money they didn't give Europe, will instead serve to insulate China. There's no guarantee any money is going to help the European situation because just like the Greeks, they don't want to lose anything they already have so none of it is negotiable. Sound familar? Copenhagen... again. The Europeans couldn't even sacrifice anything themselves for their own campaign to save the environment and expected the developing world to hold back and sacrifice so they can maintain their rich lifestyles. They didn't show responsibility there. What makes anyone think they'll be responsible here with someone elses money?
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The EU might be about to lose one or more members, rumors say, beginning with Greece. There were prospective members. Turkey has been negotiating for nearly twenty years. Ukraine was seen as a probable future member, especially when it was unable to pay its gas bill to Russia (sic!). Poor little Georgia was seen as a likely candidate. All such countries might in ten or twenty years time be members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I'm reading how the critics in the EU of Chinese involvement seem to now accept it but are steadfast against China getting anything out of it. Some Chinese official apparently responded in effect saying the Europeans can just say no.
Please, Europe. Reject Chinese money, now!
Please, Europe. Reject Chinese money, now!
I just love that article! It shows how the Europeans are being total scumbags about this whole situation; they want China to give them anything they want, without strings attached, and in return they give China nothing.
I especially love this quote:
"The idea that Europe is desperate for China's money is wrong," one senior euro zone monetary official said this week, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"I don't like all this talk of Europe begging China for help, because Europe has the resources to solve its own problems if it can find the political will," the source said.
Well then why do they keep on begging??
Recognition of market economy status, lifting of arms embargo and more voting rights in IMF should be China's take it or leave it offer to EU.
I especially love this quote:
"The idea that Europe is desperate for China's money is wrong," one senior euro zone monetary official said this week, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"I don't like all this talk of Europe begging China for help, because Europe has the resources to solve its own problems if it can find the political will," the source said.
Well then why do they keep on begging??
Recognition of market economy status, lifting of arms embargo and more voting rights in IMF should be China's take it or leave it offer to EU.
The Euro zone is extremely successful in giving Germany and the Netherlands a positive balance of payments. As a whole the Euro zone has a near neutral balance of payments and the deficit is suffered mostly by the Mediterranean members. If they were to leave the value of the Euro would increase and the advantage of some Northern members will leave with them. So are those Northern members able to see their danger? No, they're not. So they are not able to pay a reasonable price for Chinese help, such as a reduction of the standing of the Netherlands as a near financial superpower, as a representative on the IMF board of several many countries, to a more fitting status. A short while ago it was the home country of a world wide operating bank, ABN-Amro, that had to be nationalized to prevent it failing all together. It is very difficult to recognize that one is going down in the world.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Like asking for Buck House.
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