Education..Now and the future

Re: Anti US Protest in Japan

Infra_Man99 said:

It is true that most recent immigrants to America do not have a high school diploma, they barely passed high school, or they went to lower quality schools than American schools. Not to be rude, but where have you been? Haven't you read American news about America's high influx of cheap labor from Latin America and about America's public school problems? However, there are a small fraction of immigrants who are EXTREMELY bright. If you are offended by this or find this politically incorrect, then read a story book. I am interested in facts.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and is it a fact that overall education standards of US citizens is going downwards and that it is because of immigration? The US doesn't let just anyone become a citizen. So some hard, sourced figures would be appreciated.

Read what I quoted, please, rather than be rude. It's silly to criticise someone for a point they didn't make.

On the point of China, if current trends continue eventually any increases in the percentage of the population receiving a good education will plateau, as there is insufficient funding for most Chinese children. At the moment a relative minority have access to better facilities, but the majority are not nearly as well equipped. In many ways it's a lottery as to where you grow up.

Re: Anti US Protest in Japan

Mr T said:

Yeah, and is it a fact that overall education standards of US citizens is going downwards and that it is because of immigration? The US doesn't let just anyone become a citizen. So some hard, sourced figures would be appreciated.

Read what I quoted, please, rather than be rude. It's silly to criticise someone for a point they didn't make.

On the point of China, if current trends continue eventually any increases in the percentage of the population receiving a good education will plateau, as there is insufficient funding for most Chinese children. At the moment a relative minority have access to better facilities, but the majority are not nearly as well equipped. In many ways it's a lottery as to where you grow up.

Click to expand...

I apologize for being rude, it is just that I am an American and immigration is an important topic right now, ESPECIALLY ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, but the US government swept this topic under the rug. The US government wanted to give illegal immigrants amnesty and a path to citizenship, but US citizens voted "NO!" However, the US government ignored US citizens and is virtually giving illegal immigrants amnesty and a path to citizenship.

America's educational problems are NOT COMPLETELY due to uncontrolled immigration. They are PARTLY due to uncontrolled immigration. America's public facilities and services (education, hospital, fire department, police, parks, regulators and inspectors, infrastructure, etc) are running into problems because illegal immigrants use this stuff but they don't pay taxes or they don't pay enough taxes to afford these facilities and services. This is mostly because they have very low salaries with zero or very low tax rates. However, Americans benefit from the cheap labor illegal immigrants provide. In a way, America is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Saying this, some of America's private schools, private universities, and public universities are arguably the best in the whole world.

America's Constitution allows anyone (yes, anyone) born in America to be a US citizen. America's court will NOT throw out an immigrant in America with a child who has US citizenship. If an immigrant's child is a US citizen, there is an extremely high probability the US government will eventually give citizenship to the parents. America's court also allows naturalized US citizens to bring relatives into the US as immigrants who can eventually become US citizens. America's court is very supportive of allowing immigrant students to stay in America to eventually become US citizens. America granted amnesty and legalized at least a million illegal Latin American immigrants during the 1980s and 1990s. Now, America has possibly 20 million illegal immigrants, mostly from Latin America, and the US government wants to give them unofficial amnesty and the option to stay in America to eventually become US citizens.

I give no links 'cuz it is pretty common knowledge here in America. You can easily find this information on the Internet or ask other American members like Popeye. He should know about America's current immigration policy and tell you that it is very forgiving and open (America probably has the friendliest immigration policy in the world right now).

Americans cannot simply call the police or INS to get rid of illegal immigrants because businesses want the cheap labor and so do many American consumers. In addition, most US city and state governments want a friendly immigration policy. Trust me when I say that if a US citizen sees an illegal immigration, he CANNOT call the police, INS, or any other government agency to deport the illegal immigrant. The citizen will be ignored by the US government. It is very difficult to deport illegal immigrants in the US.

Popeye is a respectable member here and talk to him about America's very friendly immigration policy or just search the Internet --- this info should be very easy to find because they are important topics for America right now.

I don't mind immigrants as long as they work hard and honor America's laws, but I think America needs to better organize its immigration.

I am not going to predict about China because I find China so unpredictable, but I rather be a living in today's China than 1950s China, 1960s China, 1970s China, 1980s China, and 1990s China.

As a friendly reminder only moderatos are permitted to use RED Print.

bd popeye super moderator

Immigration is yet another interesting topic, but we just formed this thread to discuss education.

The US attracts many talented people for education in the university level, some stay in the US but a lot leave and take their knowledge to the benefit of their home countries. But don't mistake about it the university level in Asian countries have gone up and is very good. I got friends in the Philippines for example, and they tell me the best and most talented still study in the universities there, and those that didn't quite make it to the top three institutions, are the ones they send to the US. There is an ongoing joke about a certain university in the US whose initials are joked as the University of Stupid Filipinos.

The problem with US education, is that the very best is too expensive and those that you can afford isn't good enough. That only feeds to the cycle of the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. At the same time, the education system is caught between two ideologies, the first, the Darwinian Capitalism that feeds to the cycle above, and the second, the socialistic handouts that tends to feed mediocrity.

Re: Anti US Protest in Japan

Infra_Man99 said:

The US government wanted to give illegal immigrants amnesty and a path to citizenship, but US citizens voted "NO!" However, the US government ignored US citizens and is virtually giving illegal immigrants amnesty and a path to citizenship.

Click to expand...

People never like giving illegal immigrants amnesty, but sometimes it's for the best. But I get that this is a non-political forum so let's not discuss that.

However, Americans benefit from the cheap labor illegal immigrants provide.

Click to expand...

Exactly. And it's because of this that their education is not relevant. You always need people to do unskilled jobs. The question is, do their kids who are born in the US and given US citizenship, those who are already US citizens, etc get a reasonable education such that they can supply the market with skills, etc.

I give no links 'cuz it is pretty common knowledge here in America.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to dispute much of what you say because it's not in dispute here. What I wanted was sources to support the supposed decline in education standards across the US because of immigration.

The reason I did that is that if you ask anyone in any country where there is noticeable education whether immigration has a negative impact on services they will almost always say, "oh yes, everyone knows that!" It has become such a "universal truth" that people don't seek to challenge/understand what the actual situation is.

Re: Anti US Protest in Japan

Mr T said:

I suppose you have some evidence to back that up, rather than just making vague assertions and being unpleasant towards immigrants? Sometimes their children do quite well at school, and the US still attracts many well educated people.

Click to expand...

I am making assertions but it's hardly vague, when a fact is unpleseant it's still a fact. I have nothing against any immigrants anywhere in the world, but you only need to take a look at the overall education lvl of the certain emigrant grps to realise the situation.

Sometimes their children do quite well at school does hardly change the overall statistic.

US still attracts many well educated people, but those are relatively very few amongst the emigrants, and what we are talking about here is the overall education lvl.

I don't think Mr. T is arguing about the low education levels of some immigrants. I believe he is saying that any nation needs an economy with people with low education levels to perform low skilled labor and that better educated people should not despise or overlook low skilled laborers. Irregardless of what Mr. T is saying, I believe a nation does need low skilled labor or low education labor. The labor can be outsourced or gained through immigration.

You don't need a BS or PhD to do every important job out there. Imagine how difficult life will be for us if we did not have garbage collectors, waste and sewage workers, street cleaners, janitors, basic construction workers, waiters, farming assistants, public transportation drivers, cashiers, store assistants, cooks, etc. To live in an age of convenience, we either have to have low skilled laborers or robots who can replace low skilled laborers.

Sometimes, a high level of education is unnecessary and even wasteful. Yes, lowering education standards for low skill laborers is lowering the overall education standards, but if done correctly, it can be a good thing. It can also be done incorrectly, and cause all types of problems.

What I was saying is that you still need to organize these people, like any people, and America seems pretty disorganized right now when it comes to immigration, but I am going off topic again.