East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Please do not reply to posts from banned members. Especially posts that led to a banning in the first place

Jeff Head said:

I believe Australia has made it's criticisms known about the ADIZ, and China clearly does not like it.

In my personal opinion, the Chinese ADIZ...as long as it is directed specifically as identifying potential threats approaching its coast line and/or sensitive facilities...is a perfectly natural and not an unusual thing to do.

Operated in that fashion...just like the US, Japan, South Korea, and many other nations operate them...they are not a threat or hindrance to normal operations, commercial or military of any other nation that do not pose a threat. As long as the PRC operates them in this way, and makes it clear that that is its intent...other nations should accept it and let it lay.

Now, this would mean that established commercial corridors through international air space should be respected with out demanding flight plans and transponders...and that other nations, as long as their intent is to abide normal practice should not feel compelled to give them.

Same goes for normal military exercises in international airspace.

However, if an aircraft, or an exercise, intends to drive hard towards the Chinese mainland, they should expect to be contacted, warned off, and intercepted. IMHO, that's just a reality of operating around other nations with modern jet aircraft.

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It's one thing to put out statements on Australia's concerns about ADIZ vis-a-vis Pacific region stability, but quite another to dive headfirst and insert itself in an essentially bilateral argument between China and Japan. The US inserted herself to 1) uphold alliance treaty obligation to Japan, 2) keep events from spinning out of control, and 3) hedge against China and maintain her position as the dominant Pacific nation. Australia, on the other hand, inserted itself into a Great Powers game deeper than it needed to do (to show support for Japan), and unnecessarily harmed the carefully crafted Sino-Australia strategic partnership PM Guillard forged. It's going to be a bumpy ride ahead for China-Australia relations.

raygun said:

S.K expanded her ADIZ, the zone now overlapped not only China's but also Japan's ADIZ. Talk about waking up the neighborhood. Now it gets interesting.

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This is actually beneficial to China. It will be interesting to see how US will respond to this having vocally referred to ADIZ as illegitimate not long ago. If US criticizes South Korea, this will sour relation and make Korea feels more needs in countering Japan. If US accepts this, this will be an acceptance of ADIZ, which will add legitimacy to China's ADIZ as well.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Engineer said:

I responded to correct lies...

...arrogant politicians in the West think like you do....

Since Japan has been spoiled...

... it manages to enrage people like you to whine

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Engineer, this line of discussion, and particularly the tone is what just got Rutim banned for a week.

Calling people liars, arrogant, spoiled, whiners, etc. is exactly the type of tone that got the other poster suspended. This is your warning to stop the same.

Thanks.

Blackstone said:

It's one thing to put out statements on Australia's concerns about ADIZ vis-a-vis Pacific region stability, but quite another to dive headfirst and insert itself in an essentially bilateral argument between China and Japan.

Australia...inserted itself into a Great Powers game deeper than it needed to do (to show support for Japan), and unnecessarily harmed the carefully crafted Sino-Australia strategic partnership PM Guillard forged. It's going to be a bumpy ride ahead for China-Australia relations.

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Any nation can raise its objections. South Korea, the US, Japan, Taiwan, and Australia have all raised their objections.

All of them also have to live with whatever fallout results from it. There is no doubt that they all (including Australia) took this calculus into consideration when making the objections and determined that what they imagined the cost would be was somehow worth it. In some cases it was purely to serve as a marker for, as you say, nations with treaties with one another.

With others, it is either economic or political. For example, Australia is seeking Japan's significant technological help in building its own new modern and stealthy diesel-electric submarines to replace the Collins Class. I have no doubt that things like that factored into it.

In the end, it is my contention, that none of that will impact the ADIZ.

China has established it. I believe it's principle purpose is to protect the Chinese mainland and any sensitive installations on the mainland from any aggressive or threatening flight profile out over that portion of international air space in the Pacific.

The US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, and many other nations have similar zones for the same reasons.

I do not believe that any of the objections were made in the real hope that China would do away with the new ADIZ. As I have stated, I believe that ADIZ is here to stay. I also believe the PRC will use it for the stated purposes and that when used in that manner there is no realistic way that these other nations can object to it.

So what you are left with is political markers being laid down for what each nation believes are in its own interests that serve to try and strengthen either existing ties, or desired ones...and may be at the cost of others that are developing.

But in the end...they will not have any real impact on the ADIZ itself.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

You are responding to a post which got another member banned.
It is ungentlemanly as the member is unable to respond and unwise as the post was originally flame bait.

Please all members refrain from posting against comments from a banned member, especially those comments that led to a ban.
Any attempt to try and continue a line that led to a banning is only likely to get you banned as well.

Engineer said:

This is actually beneficial to China. It will be interesting to see how US will respond to this having vocally referred to ADIZ as illegitimate not long ago. If US criticizes South Korea, this will sour relation and make Korea feels more needs in countering Japan. If US accepts this, this will be an acceptance of ADIZ, which will add legitimacy to China's ADIZ as well.

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There's no need for US to criticize ROK's extension of their existing ADIZ in response to China's move, since China made it plain she's not looking for trouble with either North or South Korea.

Blackstone said:

There's no need for US to criticize ROK's extension of their existing ADIZ in response to China's move, since China made it plain she's not looking for trouble with either North or South Korea.

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I wonder what is N Korea reaction?

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Engineer said:

Stopping and impounding a vessel on the high sea would meet the definition of piracy. There is no doubt in my mind that if Chinese coast guard vessels were to impound Japanese fishing boats on the high sea, the Western media would call this state-sponsored piracy.

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Western governments would avoid labeling such actions by China as "state-sponsored piracy," because the likely outcome is diplomatic deep freeze, like what happened between Beijing and London after Cameron met with the Dali Lama.