East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

SamuraiBlue said:

Which is a complete farce by PRC since the three smaller islands were property of the government of Japan from the beginning. How does the matter change whether it belonged to a private Japanese citizen or the state?
Do you really believe in that BS?

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exactly, how does the matter change whether it belonged to a private Japanese citizen or the state? why did ishihara and noda insist on buying the islands at this time if it made no difference? it's obviously a deliberate provocation and a politically antagonistic symbolic emphasis of japan's claim over this disputed territory. if anything, what is farcical is the noda government stirring the pot like this. you think they didn't know that this might ruffle some feathers in beijing?

if it really made no difference then the noda government would not have insisted on this 'f-you' to beijing when it could have just let the the islands remain in private japanese hands without raising a fuss.

Although new here, there’s a few things I want to mention after reading through all these posts in this thread. I’m Chinese so this may be biased, but I’m still going to say it anyway. At least this will provide you with some idea of how some of the Chinese people think about this whole ADIZ thing.

I want to start off by saying that I wholeheartedly support this act and I feel it brings about many great things (from my perspective of course). Some has already been mentioned so I won’t repeat.

First and foremost, this will provide a rare and precious training opportunity for the PLAAF and PLANAF. Some may have noticed that it is not until recent years (2010-2011 onwards) that J10s have started to enter service with the PLANAF. With new aircrafts, new training is needed and this ADIZ will be a great training field. You’re never going to know when and what will be coming into the zone, or what kind of actions will be undertaken by intruders. The pilots have to learn to deal with all kinds scenarios and learn to intercept some of the best aircrafts operated by some of the best trained pilots in the world. This will be great chance for our forces.

Secondly, it greatly boosts national pride and confidence. For a very long time the Chinese people felt uncomfortable with the fact the Japan has an ADIZ and it’s so near China and we had none to counter. Now we have one, at least it’s a fairer game now, which is great.

Lastly (though this is a little bit off topic) I want to say, as a Chinese I have full confidence that time is on our side. Undeniable fact is that Japan’s F15Js are old and aging, F2s are lacking in numbers, and its economy has been stagnating for decades. I think people in this forum are familiar with Chinese military development in recent years, it will be redundant to repeat. We do have shortcomings, e.g. engines, trainings maybe, large tankers, etc. But 30 years ago when Japan first got her F15Js in the early 1980s, we don’t even have an aircraft that has a proper fire-control radar, even J7s are rare. Heck, we flew thousands of those J6s which is like toys in front of Japan’s mighty F15J. The situation is similar for the Navy. Look where we are today? I’m young and healthy, and I’ll wait patiently for another 30 years. Actually even 100 years is nothing, the Diaoyu islands are separated for more than 100 years already. In a larger picture, 100 years is also just a tiny fraction of thousands of years of Chinese civilisation.

I’ll wait.

xiabonan said:

Secondly, it greatly boosts national pride and confidence. For a very long time the Chinese people felt uncomfortable with the fact the Japan has an ADIZ and it’s so near China and we had none to counter. Now we have one, at least it’s a fairer game now, which is great.

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Well, I'd say that hardly any Chinese civilian had spent a night thinking about it (or even knowing it existed before).

Bltizo said:

And if Japan militarizes heavily it won't only piss China off. The US will be nervous, SK won't be happy either.

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South Korea probably knows they're standing in a row somewhere behind Japan. And it's a great tactics to inform others (public opinion) about things China did earlier without informing about it. Woah! PLAAF can now roam the international airspace now like they used to yesterday!

This discussion turned into a farce without any arguments... Just like the earlier ones about Japanese intruding the Chinese drills and Japanese putting ASM for training.

xiabonan said:

I’m young and healthy, and I’ll wait patiently for another 30 years. Actually even 100 years is nothing, the Diaoyu islands are separated for more than 100 years already. In a larger picture, 100 years is also just a tiny fraction of thousands of years of Chinese civilisation.

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lol

Rutim said:

Well, I'd say that hardly any Chinese civilian had spent a night thinking about it (or even knowing it existed before).

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Unless you're a Chinese civilian you can't really make that statement.
There's this idea that individuals not acquaintaned with China like to hold, that the chinese government is somehow acting geopolitically unconnected with its people. Very fanciful. Builds into the whole "illegitimate dictatorship" narrative.

It's poor time for Japan to be playing this game...especially when Japan's energy imports are fueling a rocketing deficit from the shut down of Nuclear Power in Japan due to Fukushima and money printing from Abeconomics (which was attempted earlier when Japan was in a stronger position in the 2000s). As the deficits from imports of foreign oil and gas, it means Japan's large debt is unlike the trillions Japan currently owns domestically. Meaning Japan will increasingly find its government policies controlled and influenced by its creditors and...find it self either it will have to be more submissive to whatever creditor borrows from and sending ships and fighters in a game of attrition is only going to drive up the costs.

MiG-29 said:

pure fantasy, america`s service men are stationed in Japan do you understand that?
do you understand that the US air force and navy is there?
do you understand that Japan is a huge aircraft carrier?
the US will react simply because if there is a mishap, their air forces are in Japan, they won`t stay silence other wise they would not even have bases in Japan, is ilogic since the US is in Japan to protect its interests in Asia, therefore supporting Japan is supporting its interests

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The US forces answer to the US, they won't interdict on Japan's behalf because 1. it would undermine Japanese sovereignty, and 2. directly involve themselves in a bilateral dispute, superseding Japanese authority themselves and become directly engaged vis-a-vis China. The American forces will sit and watch, and that's all they will do unless someone shoots first and even then they will have to contend with congressional thumb twiddling before rushing head long into anything.

Bltizo said:

Unless you're a Chinese civilian you can't really make that statement.
There's this idea that individuals not acquaintaned with China like to hold, that the chinese government is somehow acting geopolitically unconnected with its people. Very fanciful. Builds into the whole "illegitimate dictatorship" narrative.

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Well, I can only be sure that Chinese have hundreds of jokes about government etc similar to 'The only time when CCTV tells the truth is when they announce 'It's 7 PM Beijing Time''

Rutim said:

Well, I'd say that hardly any Chinese civilian had spent a night thinking about it (or even knowing it existed before).South Korea probably knows they're standing in a row somewhere behind Japan. And it's a great tactics to inform others (public opinion) about things China did earlier without informing about it. Woah! PLAAF can now roam the international airspace now like they used to yesterday!

This discussion turned into a farce without any arguments... Just like the earlier ones about Japanese intruding the Chinese drills and Japanese putting ASM for training.lol

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Are you Chinese? On CJDBY forum, there's more than 50 threads about this topic and the first one collected more than a thousand replies in half a day's time. Majority are happy and supportive some even said that they've waited for this day for more than twenty years (since the Japanese had their own ADIZ) Many confessed on the forum that they had drunk to celebrate, some even wrote "Long live the Chinese Communist party, Long live China and the Chinese people, Long live Chairman Xi!" after they admitted they're drunk. I know this whole thing may sound bizarre to you, but it actually happened.

This is just a military forum, and it's not even the largest.

On many Chinese new sites, news articles reporting this gained as high as 10,000+ comments within a day.

Let me tell you something, if today there's still one thing that is capable of uniting the vast majority of Chinese people, that is matters regarding Japan. Don't, ever, underestimate that. I left China at the age of 13 and has been receiving education in Singapore since then, and frankly speaking my sentiments towards Japan are nowhere as strong as those who grew up till adulthood in China. I've met many friendly Japanese people and I love many things about Japan and its culture and have always wanted to travel there, but if one day war ever breaks out between the two countries, even if we're at fault, I'll give my everything including my life to fight it.

For the rest of the members, I'm sorry that this whole thing is off-topic. Just want to say that this thing is all over the news and the Internet and the people are very very passionate about it. Many praised the current Xi-Li government for its 'toughness', and are hoping for tougher actions. This is dangerous but if handled well, it can play to China's advantage (of course it can backfire too).

Rutim said:

Well, I can only be sure that Chinese have hundreds of jokes about government etc similar to 'The only time when CCTV tells the truth is when they announce 'It's 7 PM Beijing Time''

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This is true when it comes to domestic news. People are very suspicious towards the government in this case. But when it comes to Japan, the only thing people complain about the government is that it's being too soft towards Japan. If China becomes an electoral democracy tomorrow, candidates have a very simple way to win the elections--just promise they'll take Taiwan back by force and nuke Tokyo they'll win immediately.

You simply have no idea how united the Chinese people become when it comes to matters about Japan.

In4ser said:

It's poor time for Japan to be playing this game...especially when Japan's energy imports are fueling a rocketing deficit from the shut down of Nuclear Power in Japan due to Fukushima and money printing from Abeconomics (which was attempted earlier when Japan was in a stronger position in the 2000s). As the deficits from imports of foreign oil and gas, it means Japan's large debt is unlike the trillions Japan currently owns domestically. Meaning Japan will increasingly find its government policies controlled and influenced by its creditors and...find it self either it will have to be more submissive to whatever creditor borrows from and sending ships and fighters in a game of attrition is only going to drive up the costs.

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well abenomics pretty much means that japan is keeping things afloat by depreciating their own currency. they are trading long term prosperity for short term growth. (people anticipate inflation so they spend now) however wages are unlikely to keep up with inflation if they keep this going so they are essentially siphoning wealth from their future selves. perhaps they are anticipating becoming a net exporter again once the yen nosedives?

in the end, everyone wants to make money, i only wish japan and china can figure out a way to make money together instead of squabbling over territorial influence like this. however in the end i still believe that china is in the right on this claim, even if it may increase volatility in the region. i say this not just because i'm chinese.

japan is still punching above its weight class right now as a result of its colonialist past and because of american support. china on the other hand has a proportionately smaller influence than japan because of its history at the receiving end of colonialism and political antagonism from the u.s.
purely for the sake of equity i'd say that japanese influence deserves to be reduced while an increase in china's influence is long overdue.