East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

everyone is talking about america's attitude, and it seems that's the only thing that matters, to me that's very offensive. I for one don't give a damn for it, as Mao once said:

"it's used to be the case that america is tiger's ass --- untouchable, we've grabed it for three years in korea, and it's not a big deal" "以前美国人是老虎屁股摸不得，我们在朝鲜摸了三年，也就是那么回事！“

it is used to be the case that to a samurai, it's "face" is more important than its life, nowadays, samurai proudly raises its head under american's crotch, and calls China's bluff one after another.

Bltizo said:

Define "comply".

PLAAF planes still enter Japanese ADIZ and do their recon missions despite it.
Russian bombers still test US air force responses despite a massive US ADIZ.

No one expects the US to stop surveillance activities on China despite a PRC ADIZ either.

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Reply to PRC radio signals nor state reason of presence. In fact no reply to any message sent out.
Within an ADIZ this is considered a provocative action and swift response by the PLAAF trying to escort the designated boogy out of the ADIZ area that had not responded. This raises tension within the area and is preceded by not going further into the ADIZ but in the case of the newly set ADIZ this is going to be difficult if not impossible for some mission by the US military so clearly the PLAAF planes that had scrambled may well be pressed to take further actions in which could become another .

Raising tension in the region is not a smart move.

SamuraiBlue said:

Reply to PRC radio signals nor state reason of presence. In fact no reply to any message sent out.
Within an ADIZ this is considered a provocative action and swift response by the PLAAF trying to escort the designated boogy out of the ADIZ area that had not responded. This raises tension within the area and is preceded by not going further into the ADIZ but in the case of the newly set ADIZ this is going to be difficult if not impossible for some mission by the US military so clearly the PLAAF planes that had scrambled may well be pressed to take further actions in which could become another

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.

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I'm sure the EP-3 incident is fresh in the PLAAF's mind, and their phrasing of "emergency measures" in their list of rules for the ADIZ is left purposefully vague so it allows use of force depending on the circumstance, and it will be up to severity of the environment (for instance, if it appears like enemy aircraft are on an attack vector as compared to merely a surveillance mission).

You're familiar with JSDF, are you aware of the regulations of Japan's ADIZ?

Or for that matter, does anyone know what the exact rules of various other ADIZ's of the world, USA, Canada etc.

Raising tension in the region is not a smart move.

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Well then maybe Japan shouldn't have purchased the islands last year.

Bltizo said:

I'm sure the EP-3 incident is fresh in the PLAAF's mind, and their phrasing of "emergency measures" in their list of rules for the ADIZ is left purposefully vague so it allows use of force depending on the circumstance, and it will be up to severity of the environment (for instance, if it appears like enemy aircraft are on an attack vector as compared to merely a surveillance mission).

You're familiar with JSDF, are you aware of the regulations of Japan's ADIZ?

Or for that matter, does anyone know what the exact rules of various other ADIZ's of the world, USA, Canada etc.

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Japan's ROE is clear and PLAAF should know very well how it works since they been challenging it on a average of twice a day for the last two year.LoL

Bltizo said:

Well then maybe Japan shouldn't have purchased the islands last year.

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Which is a complete farce by PRC since the three smaller islands were property of the government of Japan from the beginning. How does the matter change whether it belonged to a private Japanese citizen or the state?
Do you really believe in that BS?

SamuraiBlue said:

Japan's ROE is clear and PLAAF should know very well how it works since they been challenging it on a average of twice a day for the last two year.LoL

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Unfortunately I'm not a PLAAF pilot, and I'd like to know what the Japanese ADIZ RoE are, that is, if you know them. If not, then that's okay.

Which is a complete farce by PRC since the three smaller islands were property of the government of Japan from the beginning. How does the matter change whether it belonged to a private Japanese citizen or the state?
Do you really believe in that BS?

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The nationalization of the islands were an escalatory move in the territorial dispute, yes. It was the symbolism which counted. Similarly it was the symoblism of the Chinese fisherman arrest in 2010 which inflamed the dispute.
Any Japanese act or statement to increase perception of "sovereign ownership" is effectively an escalation by China. So yes, I do believe in that BS, there is a sound logic behind why that would piss China off.

The dispute had been shelved and fairly removed from the Sino-Japanese relationship before then, due to a mutual understanding between the two countries. A shame its ugly head had to rise up like this.


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Oh and this: "Which is a complete farce by PRC since the three smaller islands were property of the government of Japan from the beginning," is the reason why Japan and China can't have proper conversations about these islands. It was quite for decades after they established relations in 1972, and political goodwill has all but turned to ash in the last three or four years simply due to a stubborn inability to communicate. Both sides are guilty of this, but it was Japan who had decided to push their jurisdiction in such a way which would inflame tensions.

The airforce says it has conducted its first air patrol since the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone was announced. Reconnaissance and early-warning aircraft and warplanes were deployed. But what is an Air Defense Identification Zone, and how does it work?

Air Defence Identification Zone is a zone that can extend in some cases up to 300 miles beyond the territorial sea. It’s established by some countries off their coasts for security reasons. When entering the zone, all aircraft are required to identify themselves, report flight plans, and inform ground control of their exact position.

Military expert Yin Zhuo said, "Since the 1950s, some countries have demarcated Air Defense Identification Zones on high seas or international waters. It’s also called identification belt."

Air Defense Identification Zone is an early-warning air defense concept. It has been implemented in more than 20 countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia, South Korea and Japan.

For example, after Japan’s surrender in 1945, the US demarcated an identification zone off Japan’s coasts, but it was under the control of the US military in Japan. It was only until 1969 that the US transferred the management of the zone to Japan.

After that, Japan expanded the zone westward twice, once in 1972, the other in 2010. Japan follows a warning sequence for unidentified aircraft: radar detection, emergency calls, fighter emergency launch, requiring forced landing, and bomb warning. Once its own aircraft, land, or vessels are attacked, a defense war will be launched. However, territorial disputes still exist, as the zone is not recognised by Japan’s neighbors, Russia and China.

Chinese Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun responds to questions on the establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone. Photo:


China's Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun on Saturday answered questions from the media on the establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone.

1. Why did the Chinese government set up the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone? Was it related to the current regional situation?

An air defense identification zone is established by a maritime nation to guard against potential air threats. This airspace, demarcated outside the territorial airspace, allows a country to identify, monitor, control and dispose of entering aircraft. It sets aside time for early warning and helps defend the country's airspace.

The Chinese government has followed common international practices in the establishment of the zone, with aims of protecting its state sovereignty and territorial and airspace security, and maintaining flying orders. It is a necessary measure in China's exercise of self-defense rights. It has no particular target and will not affect the freedom of flight in relevant airspace.

2. On what grounds did China establish the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone?

The establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone has a sound legal basis and accords with common international practices.

Since the 1950s, over 20 countries, including some big powers and China's neighboring countries, have set up air defense identification zones.

China's measures conform to the Charter of the United Nations and international laws and practices. China's domestic laws and regulations, including the Law on National Defense, the Law on Civil Aviation and the Basic Rules on Flight, have clear stipulations on protecting territorial and airspace security and maintaining flying orders.

3. How was the domain of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone determined? Why is the zone located as close as 130 kilometers from some countries?

The domain of the zone is based on the needs of China's national air defense and maintaining flying orders.

The east end of the zone is still closest to China (compared with other countries), from which combat aircraft can reach China's airspace within a short time. It is necessary for China to identify an aircraft from that point to ascertain its purpose and attributes, so as to set aside early warning time to adopt measures to protect air defense security.

Moveover, a relevant country established its air defense identification zone as early as 1969, which is also about 130 kilometers from the Chinese mainland at its closest distance.

4. After foreign aircraft enter the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone, what measures will China adopt?

The Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China has made explicit stipulations on the identification of the aircraft in relevant airspace, and that is in line with international practices.

China will take timely measures to deal with air threats and unidentified flying objects from the sea, including identification, monitoring, control and disposition, and it hopes all relevant sides positively cooperate and jointly maintain flying safety.

It is worth mentioning that China has always respected other countries' rights of free flight in accordance with international laws, and the establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone will not change the legal nature of relevant airspace. The normal flight of international flights in the zone will not be affected.

5. Will China establish other air defense identification zones?

China will establish other air defense identification zones at an appropriate time after completing preparations.

SamuraiBlue said:

Which is a complete farce by PRC since the three smaller islands were property of the government of Japan from the beginning.

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*Cough cough* -facepalm-

adeptitus said:

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The airforce says it has conducted its first air patrol since the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone was announced. Reconnaissance and early-warning aircraft and warplanes were deployed. But what is an Air Defense Identification Zone, and how does it work?

Air Defence Identification Zone is a zone that can extend in some cases up to 300 miles beyond the territorial sea. It’s established by some countries off their coasts for security reasons. When entering the zone, all aircraft are required to identify themselves, report flight plans, and inform ground control of their exact position.

Military expert Yin Zhuo said, "Since the 1950s, some countries have demarcated Air Defense Identification Zones on high seas or international waters. It’s also called identification belt."

Air Defense Identification Zone is an early-warning air defense concept. It has been implemented in more than 20 countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia, South Korea and Japan.

For example, after Japan’s surrender in 1945, the US demarcated an identification zone off Japan’s coasts, but it was under the control of the US military in Japan. It was only until 1969 that the US transferred the management of the zone to Japan.

After that, Japan expanded the zone westward twice, once in 1972, the other in 2010. Japan follows a warning sequence for unidentified aircraft: radar detection, emergency calls, fighter emergency launch, requiring forced landing, and bomb warning. Once its own aircraft, land, or vessels are attacked, a defense war will be launched. However, territorial disputes still exist, as the zone is not recognised by Japan’s neighbors, Russia and China.

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So not that different to China's ADIZ rules then. If anything it sounds a little bit more explicit, stating forced landings and use of force as final acts.

In case if anyone forgot, the current round of conflict was started by Shintaro Ishihara trying to buy the islands. He was the one who put the Japanese government between a rock and a hard place. From Ishihara's position it didn't matter if the Tokyo Metropolitan government bought it or the Japanese government bought it. The result would have been the same and to him, China is a tool to advance his nationalist agenda.

Also, I have been reading some articles that claim Japan refused to acknowledge the dispute over the islands, which is incorrect. Japan acknowledged the dispute with Taiwan and came to an agreement on fishing rights in April this year:



But this agreement was done without consultation with, and at the expense of China and the Okinawans (who have to compete with Taiwanese fishermen).

I'm a bit puzzled that China and Russia didn't respond to Japan's expanding air defense zone in 2010 by announcing their own expanded air defense zones earlier.