Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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hashtagpls

hashtagpls

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ansy1968 said:
@voyager1 that is what I hate about Obama, being the first black President, he acted as he is holier than thou, no wonder the Republican hates him.
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obama had major issues which made him easy to manipulate as an individual; he always needed to be coddled and praised for his "intellect" and yet for such a "cerebral" President, he allowed Title IX to become the salem witch trials in US college campuses, pushed for a Pivot to Asia despite Chinese assistance after the GFC (bet that fucker thought he was channeling Machiavelli with that one) and instigated or allowed members in his cabinet to instigate the shit in Ukraine which is due to become an even bigger pile of shit in the weeks to come.

If i had to crystallise Obama, it'd be wannabe whitey desperate for approval from huwhite Ma'ssa, no different from a self hating asian american who excuses the violence against asians in the hopes that buttressing white supremacy, will make him more huwhite.
 
V

voyager1

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hashtagpls said:
obama had major issues which made him easy to manipulate as an individual; he always needed to be coddled and praised for his "intellect" and yet for such a "cerebral" President, he allowed Title IX to become the salem witch trials in US college campuses, pushed for a Pivot to Asia despite Chinese assistance after the GFC (bet that fucker thought he was channeling Machiavelli with that one) and instigated or allowed members in his cabinet to instigate the shit in Ukraine which is due to become an even bigger pile of shit in the weeks to come.

If i had to crystallise Obama, it'd be wannabe whitey desperate for approval from huwhite Ma'ssa, no different from a self hating asian american who excuses the violence against asians in the hopes that buttressing white supremacy, will make him more huwhite.
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Obama was the guy who would sweet talk to you while holding a knife behind his back.

At least with the Republican you know what you are getting, but when Democrats come everyone falls over them that they are so civilised, peaceful, etc..
 
steel21

steel21

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voyager1 said:
Nope. I have heard some ideas from some US analysts where they proposed a "compromise" of halting gas supplies from Russia if Magnitsky Act sanctions are applied to Russia due to "human rights abuses" = Alexei Navalny

So you see how US wants to play the game. They start with maximum demands of halting the pipeline (impossible) but it will them compromise to, if human rights abuses happen then stop buying Russian gas.

And in this way Germany will be trapped because then the US could at any moment use its influence on the EU(media, NGOs, propaganda etc) to force Germany to stop Russian supplies whenever US wishes to do so.

I admit that this is an excellent plan which if accomplished, then Germany would be severy restrained with the US having a switch button on their hand
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If US and EU can be taken as a semi unified block, then the weakening of EU based on limited energy access and halted investment in China, resulting in overall stunted growth is not entirely a bad thing from an adversarial perspective.

Sometime, when the timeline is stretched out and assessed on a multi-decade scale, then the cumulated cost and benefits shifts entirely.

Here are the conditions and premise:
1. EU has limited expeditionary military projection, and very limited contribution to a WEST vs EAST fight. Either in Taiwan or SCS.
2. Much of EU are either directly influenced or owned by US firms and entities, harming the EU indirectly harms overall Western interest.
3. The gain in harming EU is taking down the immediate competitor to USD, the Euro, but has limited impact to the behemoth a step behind, China.
4. None of the Europeans states are of a size and scale that they are contenders in the great game. So they will always be pawns, always. It just comes down to who wield the pieces.

So, even if the CAI entirely falls apart, it might delay some initiatives, but there it won't stop the China train.

Plus, China is playing the same game as US, fraying the EU on the edges piece by piece. Look at how Spain, Greece, and how some former Eastern Bloc are acting......

If China can't get EU on board, it will prevent EU from acting entirely in unison with US, nullifying those gains.
 
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weig2000

Captain
voyager1 said:
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An excellent analysis and advice from Foreign Affairs on Biden policy towards N.Korea.
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Delusional mostly.

"Biden’s new approach to North Korea must force China to tip its carefully constructed balance toward either complete cooperation or obvious obstruction. Depending on which way China goes, the United States can then decide whether to include Beijing or cut it out of its North Korea policy efforts."

Make China to choose between the only two choices that Washington presents to it? Cut China out of the US North Korea policy efforts or from Korean Peninsula chessboard? These are two very different things. Does he think North Korea will deal with the US individually without consulting China?

The guy seems to still fantasy living in a world where the US pulls all strings in that part of world. He forgets all the history lessons. China intervened in the Korean War even though it was believed that North Korea initiated the conflict. Sure China prefers status quo and doesn't want to rock the boat, just like China did not approve the Korean War when the People's Republic barely founded less than a year ago. When China's vital interest is at stake, it will act decisively just like what it did 70 years ago. The guy imagines that if the US threatens to increase military presence around the region, China will fold quickly. Can the US win a war against China on the Korean Peninsula today if it comes to that point? Will the South Korea play along? Too many questions and variables the author simply ignores.

I do understand the larger underlying logic though: stir up troubles around China and destabilize China, create some security crisis and force the allies/vassals to fall in line, then relive the glory and familiarity of the Cold War. Essentially, these are what the US has been doing to Russia and to China more recently.
 
hashtagpls

hashtagpls

Senior Member
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weig2000 said:
Delusional mostly.

"Biden’s new approach to North Korea must force China to tip its carefully constructed balance toward either complete cooperation or obvious obstruction. Depending on which way China goes, the United States can then decide whether to include Beijing or cut it out of its North Korea policy efforts."

Make China to choose between the only two choices that Washington presents to it? Cut China out of the US North Korea policy efforts or from Korean Peninsula chessboard? These are two very different things. Does he think North Korea will deal with the US individually without consulting China?

The guy seems to still fantasy living in a world where the US pulls all strings in that part of world. He forgets all the history lessons. China intervened in the Korean War even though it was believed that North Korea initiated the conflict. Sure China prefers status quo and doesn't want to rock the boat, just like China did not approve the Korean War when the People's Republic barely founded less than a year ago. When China's vital interest is at stake, it will act decisively just like what it did 70 years ago. The guy imagines that if the US threatens to increase military presence around the region, China will fold quickly. Can the US win a war against China on the Korean Peninsula today if it comes to that point? Will the South Korea play along? Too many questions and variables the author simply ignores.

I do understand the larger underlying logic though: stir up troubles around China and destabilize China, create some security crisis and force the allies/vassals to fall in line, then relive the glory and familiarity of the Cold War. Essentially, these are what the US has been doing to Russia and to China more recently.
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Yep, China knows this is the MO of the Anglos, hence why the Quad is tiptoeing towards a "Asian NATO" despite the failure of SEATO and why China has come down hard on any asian nation which purports to become a part of the Quad.

The Anglos are declining, it'd be stupid for any asian to bat for them, no mater how many properties and safe haven bank account the anglos may promise to any traitor asian politician.
 
E

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
hashtagpls said:
Yep, China knows this is the MO of the Anglos, hence why the Quad is tiptoeing towards a "Asian NATO" despite the failure of SEATO and why China has come down hard on any asian nation which purports to become a part of the Quad.

The Anglos are declining, it'd be stupid for any asian to bat for them, no mater how many properties and safe haven bank account the anglos may promise to any traitor asian politician.
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The future is growing increasing dark for the anglos, that is for sure, though I wonder when the situation in the USA is going to hit its critical limit I wonder
 
Phead128

Phead128

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Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
It's easy for US and their allies to claim to be against China until their comfort is threatened by the possibility of Chinese retaliatory economic sanctions.

It's almost like nobody wants to be frontline guineapigs to be slaughtered by China just to maintain US hegemony with little to zero benefits offered by US to compensate any economic losses from Chinese market.

That's why Biden's aspirations for US allies to confront China is more tough rhetoric, smokes, and mirrors, than actual effective strategy. All China needs to do is Grow, and it will eclipse US. US can't do anything about it.
 
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