Death toll in Xinjiang riot rises to 140


pla101prc

Senior Member
Though Hu Yaobang has messed up many things like the legendary multi billion $ Yen credit disaster with Japan during the mid 80's, he was right in relaxing the harsh military rule in Tibet. Without economic development there can be no sustainable control!

After all no chinese immigrants want to move into thoroughly underdeveloped regions surrounded by poor and hostile indigenous people. The main problem emerging after some time is a nationalist/religious backlash of the local people against chinese immigrants and military/security, and for this there is simply no easy solution since a concept of aggressive marginalization of natives as implemented by the US during the 19th/early20th century is not any longer viable in the 21st century.
no one ever said that there cant be economic development. but that does not preclude a harsher crack down on the violent elements of Xinjiang. its like the NATO forces trying to crack down on insurgency and rebuilding iraq and afghanistan at the same time. there are people in Xinjiang who simply dont want to see tranquility under the CCP. so before this problem can be solved for the long term, the most immediate solution is to go down on them hard.
 

Quickie

Major
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Family asks Rebiya Kadeer not to organize violence, undermine harmony

Family members of Rebiya blamed her affiliation for organizing the riot in Urumqi on July 5. "Because of you, many innocent people of all ethnic groups lost their lives..." they wrote. "Those, who committed crimes, should take their own responsibilities," they said

Check out the rest in the link...
 

Quickie

Major
There were supposed to be more horror coming in four cities in Xinjiang.


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BEIJING, Aug. 3 (Xinhua) -- Police forces and state security agencies had prevented five organized terrorist attacks on civilians in China's far west Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, China's anti-terrorism sources said Monday.

..../ more at the link.
 

Scratch

Captain
So what's the point in cracking down hard on people who are not satisfied until the situation is solved? What does it mean? Relax again in ten years, and, if people are still not happy and again allowed to say it, just crack them down once more because they again didn't say what somebody in control wants to hear? That leads to nowhere.

Btw, it's interesting to speak of chinese immigrants into places that are supposedly chinese anyway. How can you immigrate into you own country. The government has to assert control over some land to make chinese move there in the first place. And speaking of indigenous people there like they are someone else opposed to chinese.
 

Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Have just been trying to use a ´neutral´ vocabulary to describe a situation familiar to many citizens of vast nations like Russia, USA or China.

Imagine you were born and raised in a Russian province town like Smolensk and suddenly for your new job you have to move to Makhachkala down in Dagestan! Wow, that will teach you a lesson about clashes of civilization...

Similarly some people moving e.g. from Seattle to the ´Deep South´, lets say Birmingham, Alabama felt suddenly like immigrants in their own country although most people were brawling around in a language at least resembling to English.

But don't worry dear Scratch, many people from rural Germany have that kind of peculiar feeling too, after making first ´urban experiences´ in Berlin's or Frankfurt's quarters already dominated by Muslim immigrants.
 
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Scratch

Captain
I do aknowledge that I implied an opinion in my response you didn't mean to convey. However, I still believe that it's quiet fitting.
And sure a lot of people here moving the way you described feel like experiancing a new culture. But then again that's a rather new and different problem.
The Uighuri people didn't exactly only in the last 40-50 years get into a largely (Han)-Chinese populated Xinjiang.
 

Violet Oboe

Junior Member
@Scratch:
The eastern parts of Xinjiang came under control of a chinese state already in the 7th century AD during the Tang dynasty. After the demise of the Tang empire these territories were lost but the Qing regained them in the early 18th century and soon afterwards chinese settlement e.g. also in Urumqi started. Only after the insurrection of Yakub Beq during the 1870's chinese control was again challenged and Russian designs on ´East Turkestan´ successively succeeded in dissolving Xinjiang's bonds with Beijing. (Stalin planned indeed to create a puppet state analogous to the Mongolian PR but after Hitler's attack in 1941 he decided giving priority to the alliance with Chiang Jie Shi and his troops left the region.)

After 1949 Mao restored authority over Xinjiang with Stalin's assistance and indeed massive immigration of chinese settlers changed Xinjiang's ethnic composition. Nevertheless in most regions of central and especially eastern Xinjiang Han and Hui people have been living for centuries and certainly much longer than only 50 years.
 
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luhai

Banned Idiot
@Violet Oboe and Scratch
History of Xinjiang is a bit more complicated either of you have presents. The main problem is that in Geo-history sense, Xinjiang isn't a place to host a permanent residence of peoples; but rather a cross road where different people come and go. The Xinjiang warlord during 30's and 40's, Sheng Shicai, who is a Machu of all things wrote a book called "Sinkiang: Pawn or Pivot" which provided a good account of this problem. I only skimmed it in my old university library, you guy can take a look if you have a chance. Also I post a bunch of wiki page on page four of thead. which has good information when I posted, but I don't if it still does given how Wikipedia works.
 

Scratch

Captain
You know, the "problem" I always have with those historical explanations is: somebody was there before and after the Tang, and probably others. These people were (forcefully) displaced themselves. I'm always asking what makes a certain empire (be it the Tang in this case) the "rightfull" conquerers of that (or any) place.
Furthermore, I do believe military/state controll over a certain territory does not necessarily make it a historical part of a country, but rather does settlement on a certain scale. Or probably even on the pro-rate largest scale.
I must acknowledge, however, I cannot come up with any numbers / times or whatever for that specific case. So maybe I'm hurting myself with that.
 

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