CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I'd like to clarify something regarding my previous few posts in this thread.

It looks like what fgzfzy meant about construction not having started in 2015 was referring to assembly. I'm willing to believe that steel-cutting started in March 2015 due to the abundance of sources claiming such, but one thing that's certainly not true is keel-laying in 2015. This may be what fgzfzy was referring to.

Furthermore, it is likely that some modules have already been fabricated, considering how steel cutting (seems to have) started almost 2 years ago. However, the modules for the upper hull forward of the arresting cables might still be waiting for confirmation of the catapult decision before those are made. This part is purely my personal speculation.

By "officially" starting construction, I believe that fzgfzy was referring to keel-laying and assembly, and not steel-cutting as I previously thought.

Yes, I wondered if that may be the case as well -- if certain modules for the ship had already began and finished construction (i.e.: modules that are "common" to whether 002 is a steam cat or EM cat carrier), and that modules which may be more "unique" to steam cat or EM cat may have yet to start construction because the catapult decision has yet to be made.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
There is no compelling relationship between electromagnetic catapults and nuclear propulsion.


The question of whether electromagnetic catapults or steam catapults are used is, in principle, interesting. In the end one does not recognize, however, which kind of catapults are installed. So no matter what the first CATOBAR carrier gets.
Yes, I don't think there is an absolutely necessary relationship between nuclear power and EM cats, though my suspicion is that standard naval generators may have significant difficulty in providing the necessary electrical power on demand for sustained EM cat discharges. You'd almost certainly have to have to separate power generation from ship propulsion, necessitating additional space and weight reserves for these dedicated generators. A single EMALS for example requires a maximum of 60MW, using up enough juice to power 12,000 homes. By comparison, a QC-280 gas turbine puts out 28MW, less than half what is needed to power an EMALS. So in a conventional triple EM cat PLAN carrier, in addition to all the GTs needed for propulsion, you would also need at least 6 additional GTs dedicated solely to catapult launch. Compare that to a standard Nimitz A4W reactor rated at 550 MW; and there's two of them per Nimitz carrier.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
When you are utilizing nuclear power plants like the new A1B nuclear plants in the Ford, which each provides 200% more power than the plants in the Nimitz carriers...then you can draw a clear tie to the electromagnetic usage because there is so much electrical power available in an all electric drive.

They will be used to power the lasers and rail gund of the future on the Ford class as well.
 

delft

Brigadier
Yes, I don't think there is an absolutely necessary relationship between nuclear power and EM cats, though my suspicion is that standard naval generators may have significant difficulty in providing the necessary electrical power on demand for sustained EM cat discharges. You'd almost certainly have to have to separate power generation from ship propulsion, necessitating additional space and weight reserves for these dedicated generators. A single EMALS for example requires a maximum of 60MW, using up enough juice to power 12,000 homes. By comparison, a QC-280 gas turbine puts out 28MW, less than half what is needed to power an EMALS. So in a conventional triple EM cat PLAN carrier, in addition to all the GTs needed for propulsion, you would also need at least 6 additional GTs dedicated solely to catapult launch. Compare that to a standard Nimitz A4W reactor rated at 550 MW; and there's two of them per Nimitz carrier.
The EM cat uses 60 MW during seconds while QC-280 can provide 28 MW continuously. So you need an energy storage device, either homopolar generator or super capacitor, between the two. UK wouldn't be installing extra gas turbines if it found the billions to fit EMALS into its carriers.
BTW A4W reactors produce 550 MW thermal. So shaft output to the propeller shafts and the electric generators will be about 180 MW. They need two not to be handicapped if one fails.
 
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Mirabo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Looks like the guy who photographed the model of the carrier-based EWACS at Wuhan Huangjia Lake was invited for tea.

He was found photographing the facility a few days ago with two friends, one Taiwanese, one Japanese, and were taken into custody. The Weibo PLA-watching group that he was associated with has been investigated and disbanded.

What this says about the significance of the Type 002 program, I'll leave it to your own interpretations, gentlemen...

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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Looks like the guy who photographed the model of the carrier-based EWACS at Wuhan Huangjia Lake was invited for tea.

He was found photographing the facility a few days ago with two friends, one Taiwanese, one Japanese, and were taken into custody. The Weibo PLA-watching group that he was associated with has been investigated and disbanded.

What this says about the significance of the Type 002 program, I'll leave it to your own interpretations, gentlemen...

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He probably would not have gotten in trouble if he went by himself. He probably got paid by his "friends"
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
CV-17 should hit the water in a few months

Then out fitting will be quick as they will use CV-16 template

Should also be quick with commissioning

Operating STOBAR is not like a CATOBAR and they should be able to surge both CV-16 and CV-17 together sometime in 2020 or even 2019 when they commission second unit

Dual carrier operations from China deep in the Pacific is what we can hope to see
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes, I don't think there is an absolutely necessary relationship between nuclear power and EM cats, though my suspicion is that standard naval generators may have significant difficulty in providing the necessary electrical power on demand for sustained EM cat discharges. You'd almost certainly have to have to separate power generation from ship propulsion, necessitating additional space and weight reserves for these dedicated generators. A single EMALS for example requires a maximum of 60MW, using up enough juice to power 12,000 homes. By comparison, a QC-280 gas turbine puts out 28MW, less than half what is needed to power an EMALS. So in a conventional triple EM cat PLAN carrier, in addition to all the GTs needed for propulsion, you would also need at least 6 additional GTs dedicated solely to catapult launch. Compare that to a standard Nimitz A4W reactor rated at 550 MW; and there's two of them per Nimitz carrier.

Interesting. What is the source for the 60MW figure?
It does sound plausible. My simple calculus: 30000 kg aircraft, accelerated to 70m/s (aiming for 170 knots air speed, of which cca 35 knots is imparted by the carrier's movement). We get the kinetic energy of launched aircraft E=73.5MJ. Asuming a 2.8 second launch (roughly 2.5g), a minimum of 26.25MW average power is necessary. Of course, this is disregarding energy lost to air drag, friction and catapult inefficiency,
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
The EM cat uses 60 MW during seconds while QC-280 can provide 28 MW continuously. So you need an energy storage device, either homopolar generator or super capacitor, between the two. UK wouldn't be installing extra gas turbines if it found the billions to fit EMALS into its carriers.
BTW A4W reactors produce 550 MW thermal. So shaft output to the propeller shafts and the electric generators will be about 180 MW. They need two not to be handicapped if one fails.
That's a good point. So then would 2 extra GT's be sufficient to provide launch capabilities for all cats sequentially without need for capacitors? I imagine with the proper cabling you can simply provide juice to the catapults one at a time and then immediately switch to the next one.

Interesting. What is the source for the 60MW figure?
It does sound plausible. My simple calculus: 30000 kg aircraft, accelerated to 70m/s (aiming for 170 knots air speed, of which cca 35 knots is imparted by the carrier's movement). We get the kinetic energy of launched aircraft E=73.5MJ. Asuming a 2.8 second launch (roughly 2.5g), a minimum of 26.25MW average power is necessary. Of course, this is disregarding energy lost to air drag, friction and catapult inefficiency,
The 60MW figure for EMALS is all over the internet.
 
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