CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[by78]

Another image from Dalian.

 

[Deino]

Maybe preparing for another turn... ?

Or hoisted at half mast for 清明节 (Ching Ming festival, also known as Tomb-Sweeping Day)?

 

[supercat]

Maybe preparing for another turn... ?

Or hoisted at half mast for 清明节 (Ching Ming festival, also known as Tomb-Sweeping Day)?

National mourning day for COVID-19 victims

 

[by78]

From yesterday...

 

[antiterror13]

If Chinese Navy will not send them on far away patrols then there's no sense to have carriers at all. If all where they will sail is from Dalian to Sanya and back, then you have a glorified Coast Guard, not blue water navy. And then you don't need carriers, all what's necessary coastal aviation can do easier and cheaper.
I know that Type 001/2 have some inherent problems because of STOBAR, but that doesen't mean that patrol/cruise with an airgroup of say 12 J-15, 3-4 AEW helicopters, 2-3 SAR helicopters and 3-4 ASW helicopters would be impossible. At least say, to strech legs a little bit, to gain a little bit of experience, to sail up to say Pakistan, maybe visit Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia and other friendly countries. And China is at peace, so, 1-2 destroyers and 2 frigates as escort is enough ( I presume that they can spare this number out of 30+ modern frigates and 20 modern destroyers ), one SSN, one fast tanker and maybe one or two Type 903 to support them on the way by replenishing bays of fast tanker from time to time.

didn't you know that is already happening with Type 001 ?

 

[Sczepan]

If Chinese Navy will not send them on far away patrols then there's no sense to have carriers at all. If all where they will sail is from Dalian to Sanya and back, then you have a glorified Coast Guard, not blue water navy. And then you don't need carriers, all what's necessary coastal aviation can do easier and cheaper.
...

your "glorified Coast Guard" could protect the SCS and all the Waters inside the Island Chain (including SSN Bases) and close them for enemy CBGs and Subs - in colaboration with land bases planes.

...
I know that Type 001/2 have some inherent problems because of STOBAR, but that doesen't mean that patrol/cruise with an airgroup of say 12 J-15, 3-4 AEW helicopters, 2-3 SAR helicopters and 3-4 ASW helicopters would be impossible. …

Helicopters have a service summit height of ~ 3000 m (service ceiling of Z-8 is 3,100m), planes will have a multiple - so the Radar range is much more by planes. And if you add the operating range of the Aircraft yo can see: one fixed wing Aircraft will controll much more aerea then one AEW helo.
The helos controll a close range arround the carrier. Fixed wing Aircrafts controll the Battlefield.
A STOBAR carrier need support of land bases fixed wing aircrafts to controll the Battlefield.
A STOBAR carrier also is a agile airfield, not a lame duck, he is not sitting on the Ground to be attacked ….

 

[abc123]

didn't you know that is already happening with Type 001 ?

Yes, I know, they are sailing, but that's still from Dalian to Sanya and back...

 

[abc123]

your "glorified Coast Guard" could protect the SCS and all the Waters inside the Island Chain (including SSN Bases) and close them for enemy CBGs and Subs - in colaboration with land bases planes.

Helicopters have a service summit height of ~ 3000 m (service ceiling of Z-8 is 3,100m), planes will have a multiple - so the Radar range is much more by planes. And if you add the operating range of the Aircraft yo can see: one fixed wing Aircraft will controll much more aerea then one AEW helo.
The helos controll a close range arround the carrier. Fixed wing Aircrafts controll the Battlefield.
A STOBAR carrier need support of land bases fixed wing aircrafts to controll the Battlefield.
A STOBAR carrier also is a agile airfield, not a lame duck, he is not sitting on the Ground to be attacked ….

About the first part- if you say so. I wouldn't be so sure. Also, that's besides the point. The goal is to prevent USN from sailing up to Second Chain and prevent a naval blocade of vital oil supply from the Middle East.

Yes, I know that Hawkeye is better than Ka-31 or Z-8, but considering that PLAN has no Hawkeyes, then they need to use what they have. Also, if you don't have Hawkeye, you use more helicopters. Or you think that China will allways have enough airbases around the world ready to support their carriers?

 

[Sczepan]

The PLAN will have fixed wing airplanes (like Hawkeye) when CV 003 is in service. But we talked about CV 16 and CV 17, useable for training and to protect the aerea inside of Islands chain - and not for "out of aerea operations".
Liaoning in 2019 operated in the water near Guam as I know, which is in the range of land based fixed wing planes.

 

[Intrepid]

But we talked about CV 16 and CV 17, useable for training and to protect the aerea inside of Islands chain - and not for "out of aerea operations".

The aircraft carriers #16 and #17 can be used for "out of aerea operations" in peacetime. I am counting on it. Similar to the brief visit to Hong Kong, we will watch more events outside of Chinese waters in the next years. The crowning glory would be to circumnavigate the world.