Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

KYli

Brigadier
They never cared when the vaccines can be delivered and how many Taiwan people are going to die. All they care is how to get rid of any slight shred of connection with mainland China, either cargo transportation between or mainland company (Fosun). But in the end they just can't win.

I dare to say that the only reason that the delivery is from Germany directly is not what they wanted to present as "per their negotiation" but rather because Fosun does not produce the vaccine yet. If Fosun does produce today, I bet Taiwan government will have to get the delivery from mainland. The bottom line is that BioNTech is a company operating in the world, if it does not want Fosun to go after it all over the world in court for violation of contract obligation, if it does not want China to confiscate its IP property in China as compensation to Fosun for the violation, it will not deliver a single dose of its vaccine to Taiwan if Fosun is able to.
Fosun has the exclusive right to 100 million doses that would be produced by BioNtech. That's why Fosun can provide vaccines to Hong Kong and Macau so quickly as its 100 million doses should be prioritized as the contract said. The next billion doses would be produced in the joint venture factory in China.

For Fosun, it wanted to sell its vaccines as soon as possible as these vaccines could be expired soon. DPP just doesn't care about Taiwanese. If not, it could obtain these vaccines months ago. The thing is DPP can get away with this due to MSM and the brainwashed Taiwan people.
 

Skye_ZTZ_113

Junior Member
Registered Member
If half of recent covid deaths are fully vaccinated in the UK, then please stop spreading misinformation about Chinese vaccines having low efficacy rate.
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I have been so exhausted due to people in my circles ignoring my warnings over the virus over the past year and celebrating the end of it every time the lockdown gets lifted. I've warned them again that the AZ vaccine isn't working properly against the Delta variant but once again not being taken seriously. We're under 'lockdown' but businesses are in full boom in the city where I live. Restaurants, cinemas, pubs/bars, shopping centres running with most of their hours. Yesterday I saw many people in nightclub attire. It's just madness and I wash my hands of the whole mess. Perhaps I'm wrong and the resistance effect is far greater, thus deaths won't ever reach the 1800 a day we used to get but we'll see.
 

Quickie

Colonel
CCP was once a real communist party. it classified people as classes. it didn't support oversea Chinese, it only supported oversea communist movements. also because of the legacy between oversea Chinese and the KMT in Taiwan, ccp used to look at oversea chinese with suspicions.

You're making a sweeping statement regarding the historical background of overseas Chinese specifically that of the South East Asian ethnic Chinese. The entirety of the population of ethnic Chinese (other than the very few that have emigrated there in recent times since most of them would prefer western countries) in these countries emigrated to their adopted countries in the late 19th century and early 20th century at a time when the CCP and KMT haven't even existed yet.

CCP does not have a reason to be suspicious of these ethnic Chinese in these countries since most of them are separated by great land and sea from either party and does not have any kind of bad or good experience to either party because their forefathers emigrated from China way before both parties even existed.
 

Tse

Junior Member
Registered Member
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More weird mixed signals from Singapore's government

You are making two points:
1. You advocate and demand PRC to intervene foreign country's domestic affairs on behalf of foreign nationals of Chinese heritage, including your own country (in case of Singapore).
2. You take Etheopian Jews as a "good" example.

My thoughts:
The first point will do more damage to people you want to protect including yourself, because you are alienating yourself with your other countrymen (Indonesian, Malay or Indians). It does not matter where you claim your heritage. Remember China is not your home anymore some long time ago since your ancestors left the territory of Qing dynasty.

The first point does NOT help your cause in the mind of PRC, nor mainland Chinese, precisely because of your complain and condemnation of their "inactivity". One can not expect sympathy for other people by condemning them, not even your own brothers. Slap your brother in the face on the street and see what happens later when you are in need of help.

The first point also demonstrate that you expect privilege of ethnic Chinese than other citizens. That is colonialism in nature, no difference from the European colonialism in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Are you in support of colonialism of your own but "hate" colonialism by others? You have to answer the question first before continue any further with your demand.

The second point is irrelevant. Israel did NOT exist before 1945. All early Israelis at the foundation of the state of Israel are citizens of various countries. The state made it a law that grant any Jews to be eligible to Israeli citizen. The Ethiopian Jews are as much Israeli citizen as the Jews in 1945 so long as they choose to declare so. The Israeli government was simply rescuing its own citizens residing abroad.

The situation is similar to any foreign born person to Chinese parent(s) who automatically received foreign citizenship by place of birth. These Chinese are legally Chinese citizen from their birth so long as they make the claim before the age of 18. This is in the law. PRC would protect them as much as Israel protected those Ethiopian Jews in 1991. And China has demonstrated that will and capability in Libya in 2011.

91 chartered Chinese flights. 35 chartered foreign flights. 12 military airlifters. 11 chartered foreign sea ferries. 5 Chinese merchant ships and one naval frigate. 35860 Chinese citizens and 2100 foreign citizens from 12 countries.

I also want to clarify one thing about your "China abandoned its daughters". At the 1950s, SEA ethnic Chinese were given the choice of claiming either Chinese citizenship or citizenship of residing countries when these countries gained independence. The ones who chose Chinese (PRC) citizenship were repatriated to mainland China, about 600000 as I remember. I had one school mate being one of them. The ones choose to stay are pro-KMT, they choose the citizenship of the host country, I don't know if they could have chosen "citizenship" of ROC. Either way most of them are suspicious of PRC, or outright hate PRC. Now I ask you who abandoned whom? Why don't you call "ROC" abandoning their own loyal citizens?

It is always a tragedy when people suffering regardless their political loyalty, BUT the cause and responsibility MUST remain clear and just.
You will not easily find pro-China Chinese in SEA because we are all underground. We usually don't talk about our views until we are certain that the other person is also pro-China. The political balance is very much against us. But there are a decent number of us, I promise.

Firstly, the reason why people migrated to SEA is economic in nature, to find work. The economic problems in China had not been resolved, how could our ancestors go back? Not to mention, by the 1950s most Chinese in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma were 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th generation settlers, how do you settle when you can't even find your hometown? If it is so easy to go back then why is this forum crowded with English-speaking Overseas Chinese? and it is much easier now than back then! The claim that those who did not choose repatriation were anti-China contradicts the historical evidence: other than the obvious example of the 1950s Malayan Communist Party insurgency which was almost entirely ethnic Chinese and worked under CCP direction, also, as late as 1963 a clearly pro-China, anti-Western, hard-left party, the Socialist Front, was about to win the Singapore elections until the voters were threatened with the Malaysian Army.

Next. All the SEA countries regularly fight for the rights of their ethnicity in other countries. A major reason why Singapore hides its Chineseness is because Malaysia and Indonesia regularly threaten on behalf of their kin. In Indonesia and Thailand, Chinese have been explicitly required to cut off from all Chinese culture for many decades. In Burma and Indonesia we were massacred many times. In Malaysia, as Hendriks can tell you first hand, we have been shut out of government welfare, higher education, economic opportunities for decades. There is nothing colonial or privileged about stopping injustice against your own kind.

KMT influence in SEA (before the Reform and Opening) came from the merchant class because of economic opportunities, and from intellectuals, because the KMT in Taiwan offered subsidised university education to all ethnic Chinese at the time, and the other higher education options was in the West. The other Chinese weren't. Do you want me to list out which Singaporean high schools until this day are famous for their legacy of rallying for China and rioting against the British and their cronies? It was only after the chaos in 1960s and 1970s China, when the Bananas got richer and richer while the Sinophones were left to rot, that the new generation started switching over for survival. The official policy at the time that "you're not living in China so you're none of our business" did not help. Now what we need is to work towards repairing the damage. The Reform and Opening is the only reason why there is even a single pro-China left in SEA.

Do you realise that if that message went viral, the Banana faction among the SEA Chinese will win an enormous victory? they will say "Hey look PRC 不认我们, why should we?"
 

solarz

Brigadier
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More weird mixed signals from Singapore's government


You will not easily find pro-China Chinese in SEA because we are all underground. We usually don't talk about our views until we are certain that the other person is also pro-China. The political balance is very much against us. But there are a decent number of us, I promise.

Firstly, the reason why people migrated to SEA is economic in nature, to find work. The economic problems in China had not been resolved, how could our ancestors go back? Not to mention, by the 1950s most Chinese in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma were 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th generation settlers, how do you settle when you can't even find your hometown? If it is so easy to go back then why is this forum crowded with English-speaking Overseas Chinese? and it is much easier now than back then! The claim that those who did not choose repatriation were anti-China contradicts the historical evidence: other than the obvious example of the 1950s Malayan Communist Party insurgency which was almost entirely ethnic Chinese and worked under CCP direction, also, as late as 1963 a clearly pro-China, anti-Western, hard-left party, the Socialist Front, was about to win the Singapore elections until the voters were threatened with the Malaysian Army.

Next. All the SEA countries regularly fight for the rights of their ethnicity in other countries. A major reason why Singapore hides its Chineseness is because Malaysia and Indonesia regularly threaten on behalf of their kin. In Indonesia and Thailand, Chinese have been explicitly required to cut off from all Chinese culture for many decades. In Burma and Indonesia we were massacred many times. In Malaysia, as Hendriks can tell you first hand, we have been shut out of government welfare, higher education, economic opportunities for decades. There is nothing colonial or privileged about stopping injustice against your own kind.

KMT influence in SEA (before the Reform and Opening) came from the merchant class because of economic opportunities, and from intellectuals, because the KMT in Taiwan offered subsidised university education to all ethnic Chinese at the time, and the other higher education options was in the West. The other Chinese weren't. Do you want me to list out which Singaporean high schools until this day are famous for their legacy of rallying for China and rioting against the British and their cronies? It was only after the chaos in 1960s and 1970s China, when the Bananas got richer and richer while the Sinophones were left to rot, that the new generation started switching over for survival. The official policy at the time that "you're not living in China so you're none of our business" did not help. Now what we need is to work towards repairing the damage. The Reform and Opening is the only reason why there is even a single pro-China left in SEA.

Do you realise that if that message went viral, the Banana faction among the SEA Chinese will win an enormous victory? they will say "Hey look PRC 不认我们, why should we?"

The duty of the PRC is to protect PRC citizens. There are Chinese diaspora all over the world. It would be a gross overreach, not to mention logistical nightmare, to claim right of protection for all ethnic Chinese across the globe.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
You're making a sweeping statement regarding the historical background of overseas Chinese specifically that of the South East Asian ethnic Chinese. The entirety of the population of ethnic Chinese (other than the very few that have emigrated there in recent times since most of them would prefer western countries) in these countries emigrated to their adopted countries in the late 19th century and early 20th century at a time when the CCP and KMT haven't even existed yet.

CCP does not have a reason to be suspicious of these ethnic Chinese in these countries since most of them are separated by great land and sea from either party and does not have any kind of bad or good experience to either party because their forefathers emigrated from China way before both parties even existed.


you didn't understand my post. I was trying to answer Henry K's question on why CCP was indifferent to the suffering of oversea Chinese.

CCP was a revolutionary party before Deng. it pursued radical ideology at home, and supported revolution all around the world with treasure and blood. it didn't see the world from the perspective of nationalism. a businessman in Shanghai might suffer more than a Chinese businessman in Jakarta.

oversea Chinese played a big part in the Republican Revolution in 1911. historically they've had a deep relationship with the KMT. many of them also saw KMT as the legitimate government.
 

KYli

Brigadier
On the one hand, CNN wants people to get vaccinated and explain vaccines don't offer 100% protection. On the other, CNN just has to demonize Chinese vaccines and praises Pfizer and Moderna.
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8 million doses of Sinopharm would be delivered within days. Look likes Chinese vaccines will flood the world within a month.
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5 million doses of Sinovac for Pakistan
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2 million does of Sinopharm arrived at Bangladesh.
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1 million doses for Georgia.
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2 million doses for Sri Lanka.
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1.5 million doses for El Salvador. It is a fifth shipment from China so not sure why the media is trying to make it like a competition.
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supersnoop

Colonel
Registered Member
They never cared when the vaccines can be delivered and how many Taiwan people are going to die. All they care is how to get rid of any slight shred of connection with mainland China, either cargo transportation between or mainland company (Fosun). But in the end they just can't win.

I dare to say that the only reason that the delivery is from Germany directly is not what they wanted to present as "per their negotiation" but rather because Fosun does not produce the vaccine yet. If Fosun does produce today, I bet Taiwan government will have to get the delivery from mainland. The bottom line is that BioNTech is a company operating in the world, if it does not want Fosun to go after it all over the world in court for violation of contract obligation, if it does not want China to confiscate its IP property in China as compensation to Fosun for the violation, it will not deliver a single dose of its vaccine to Taiwan if Fosun is able to.
I think for Fosun, it was irrelevant to the company whether it was self produced or coming from Germany. Probably if Taiwan government was willing to pay a premium, then it would import it even if they had a factory.

As you said, BioNTech has to think of its global business. A Chinese company is respecting your IP law, so it is best to give the contract the same due respect otherwise your future business is toast.


Fosun has the exclusive right to 100 million doses that would be produced by BioNtech. That's why Fosun can provide vaccines to Hong Kong and Macau so quickly as its 100 million doses should be prioritized as the contract said. The next billion doses would be produced in the joint venture factory in China.

For Fosun, it wanted to sell its vaccines as soon as possible as these vaccines could be expired soon. DPP just doesn't care about Taiwanese. If not, it could obtain these vaccines months ago. The thing is DPP can get away with this due to MSM and the brainwashed Taiwan people.
Probably the contract would not specify a specific lot, so I don’t think the expiry is an issue. I think the goal for Fosun was always the HK/Macau/TW market who would be interested in a western brand and only mainland in case the domestic vaccines failed. In which case they would probably build the plant immediately or sub license to the other factories. If you think, the population combined of HK/TW/Macau would need about 60 million doses as it is, so probably checks out.

The real story is that this is implicating DPP in a lie, but the MSM will never report it. Instead they love to print the story right from the English mouth that PRC “interfered” with the negotiation.
Probably the negotiation was like this:

TW: can we buy the vaccine?
BioNTech: our exclusive distributor for the region is Fosun, you need to talk to them
TW: we don’t want to
BNT: you have to, it is a contractual obligation under Chinese and international law
TW: CHINA YOU SAY??…

As dumb as that might seem, don’t forget this is the government that said they “warned” WHO in December 2019 of COVID even though it was public knowledge in the news by then…
 
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