Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[j17wang]

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Escalation, now its Erdogan thats calling for the boycott himself. The thing is, its very difficult for Macron to back down because laicite practically requires him to hold his ground. the more interesting move is how much turkey can persuade a large ranging boycott across the arab world. as odd as it sounds, erdogan may be in a position of strength as macron is facing a a full scale wave 2.

 

[vesicles]

This is really worrying, because if you scale up for population, it is the same as saying that the US has close to 300,000 cases a day. How is this even possible? This would also suggest that deaths are 1/500, again which is very low and is only 2x as deadly as the normal flu (which kills 1/1000). Something is fishy here.

With the number of the infected so high, I've given up looking at any kind of percentages or rates. It's useless now. It's the total number of hospitalization, total number of ICU admission now. These raw numbers are tied to the amount of resources that you have. You have a finite number of medicine, syringe needles, ventilators, etc. No matter how low the infection/death rates are, if you have millions of infected, hospitals will be overwhelmed, resources will be depleted.

You also cannot look at only the COVID-19 patients. You need to consider all ill people as a whole since they are fighting / competing for the same resources, such as hospital rooms, medical personnel, medicine, PPE, equipment, etc. With hospitals packed with COVID-19 patients, patients with ordinary illnesses can no longer get the same quality of treatment as before. Then you will see non-COVID deaths to go up like crazy. People may continue to tell you that these deaths have nothing to do with COVID-19, so ignore them? Well, we can't! Many of these non-COVID deaths can be saved under normal circumstances with plenty medicine and well-rested doctors/nurses. This is something I am worried about the most at this point. We need to reserve enough resources for, not only COVID patients, but also other ordinary illnesses. People still get heart attacks, strokes, and get into serious accidents and need to be saved.

 

[B.I.B.]

With the number of the infected so high, I've given up looking at any kind of percentages or rates. It's useless now. It's the total number of hospitalization, total number of ICU admission now. These raw numbers are tied to the amount of resources that you have. You have a finite number of medicine, syringe needles, ventilators, etc. No matter how low the infection/death rates are, if you have millions of infected, hospitals will be overwhelmed, resources will be depleted.

You also cannot look at only the COVID-19 patients. You need to consider all ill people as a whole since they are fighting / competing for the same resources, such as hospital rooms, medical personnel, medicine, PPE, equipment, etc. With hospitals packed with COVID-19 patients, patients with ordinary illnesses can no longer get the same quality of treatment as before. Then you will see non-COVID deaths to go up like crazy. People may continue to tell you that these deaths have nothing to do with COVID-19, so ignore them? Well, we can't! Many of these non-COVID deaths can be saved under normal circumstances with plenty medicine and well-rested doctors/nurses. This is something I am worried about the most at this point. We need to reserve enough resources for, not only COVID patients, but also other ordinary illnesses. People still get heart attacks, strokes, and get into serious accidents and need to be saved.

I'm interested in your opinion concerning the recent discovery of traces of Covid 19 in Europe nearly a year before it emerged in Wuhan. Subsequently, this has resulted in viewpoints that China may not be the original source of the virus.

 

[vincent]

You also cannot look at only the COVID-19 patients. You need to consider all ill people as a whole since they are fighting / competing for the same resources, such as hospital rooms, medical personnel, medicine, PPE, equipment, etc. With hospitals packed with COVID-19 patients, patients with ordinary illnesses can no longer get the same quality of treatment as before. Then you will see non-COVID deaths to go up like crazy. People may continue to tell you that these deaths have nothing to do with COVID-19, so ignore them? Well, we can't! Many of these non-COVID deaths can be saved under normal circumstances with plenty medicine and well-rested doctors/nurses. This is something I am worried about the most at this point. We need to reserve enough resources for, not only COVID patients, but also other ordinary illnesses. People still get heart attacks, strokes, and get into serious accidents and need to be saved.

Eugenics at work

 

[Mt1701d]

I'm interested in your opinion concerning the recent discovery of traces of Covid 19 in Europe nearly a year before it emerged in Wuhan. Subsequently, this has resulted in viewpoints that China may not be the original source of the virus.

Frankly, I think it’s not as sensational as most people think it is... considering the corona virus or corona viruses are everywhere, thus finding viruses having similar characteristics as the virus that is causing COVID-19 or even the strain itself, isn’t really that big of a deal... the final mutation into what we know as the Corona Virus could still have happened in China first or elsewhere...

This is also why I don’t understand the obsession with finding where it started, I am of course excluding all the govs and pundits with agendas, since the particular virus strain causing the issue have been found already. From all the sentiments we have observed, it’s not like the truth means much to people anymore... I mean if it’s proven that it didn’t start in China... people will just say the Chinese gov lied and we haven’t found evidence yet or even accuse the Chinese gov of destroying evidence.

This is Iraq WMD or Syria f***ing it own people with chemical weapon all over again, one proven false and the other lack any conclusive evidence, but people still believe and run with it even now. The truth frankly doesn’t matter anymore and people will just believe whatever they believe and it’s sad.

 

[taxiya]

The ongoing Kashgar outbreak is interesting in that all positive carriers(168 last time I checked) are asymptotic. Think about it, how many people and from where have the virus been running around for how long time before it was first reported in Wuhan by doctors who treated a person with symptom? The virus could have been circulating all over the world for weeks and being ignored as common flu before someone got seriously ill to be hospitalized that raised the alarm.

I am pretty sure we can never find the patient 0. People who insist finding it would be like hunting ghost, or they have agendas that fact finding does nothing to defeat.

 

[caudaceus]

The ongoing Kashgar outbreak is interesting in that all positive carriers(168 last time I checked) are asymptotic. Think about it, how many people and from where have the virus been running around for how long time before it was first reported in Wuhan by doctors who treated a person with symptom? The virus could have been circulating all over the world for weeks and being ignored as common flu before someone got seriously ill to be hospitalized that raised the alarm.

I am pretty sure we can never find the patient 0. People who insist finding it would be like hunting ghost, or they have agendas that fact finding does nothing to defeat.

I read on reddit that it's still possible that they are presymptotic instead of asymptotic. Probably in few days some of them will develop symptoms.

 

[vesicles]

I'm interested in your opinion concerning the recent discovery of traces of Covid 19 in Europe nearly a year before it emerged in Wuhan. Subsequently, this has resulted in viewpoints that China may not be the original source of the virus.

I'm not familiar with the study you mentioned. Can you share a link?

In my opinion, Wuhan being the absolute originating location has been debunked since February/March. A number of studies, many of which coming from Chinese universities, have shown that the virus originated in many Chinese cities almost simultaneously, including Wuhan, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, etc. It went nuclear in Wuhan, unfortunately. But one thing certain is that almost all SARS CoV-2 strains now detected all around the world can be genetically/epidemiologically traced back to ancestral strains coming out of China. So it's convincing to me that Chinese strains of the virus are the sources of the current pandemic.

As to where the virus actually jumped from a bat to human, and later became capable of jumping from human to human, no one knows. According to an earlier study on SARS-CoV2, as well as many studies on MERS, it's possible that ancestral strains of SARS-CoV2 might have jumped from bats to humans many times, and finally acquired enough mutations to become capable of transmitting from human to human. This is indeed how MERS did it, jumping from camel to human many many times before becoming capable of transmitting from human to human. For MERS, this whole process took years.

 

[taxiya]

I read on reddit that it's still possible that they are presymptotic instead of asymptotic. Probably in few days some of them will develop symptoms.

Most of them will certainly become symptomatic eventually. The danger and uncertainty of chasing the source is that there is a pretty long time (many days up to a week) for the virus being carried around the globe before being noticed.

 

[taxiya]

I'm not familiar with the study you mentioned. Can you share a link?

In my opinion, Wuhan being the absolute originating location has been debunked since February/March. A number of studies, many of which coming from Chinese universities, have shown that the virus originated in many Chinese cities almost simultaneously, including Wuhan, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, etc. It went nuclear in Wuhan, unfortunately. But one thing certain is that almost all SARS CoV-2 strains now detected all around the world can be genetically/epidemiologically traced back to ancestral strains coming out of China. So it's convincing to me that Chinese strains of the virus are the sources of the current pandemic.

As to where the virus actually jumped from a bat to human, and later became capable of jumping from human to human, no one knows. According to an earlier study on SARS-CoV2, as well as many studies on MERS, it's possible that ancestral strains of SARS-CoV2 might have jumped from bats to humans many times, and finally acquired enough mutations to become capable of transmitting from human to human. This is indeed how MERS did it, jumping from camel to human many many times before becoming capable of transmitting from human to human. For MERS, this whole process took years.

I think this

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Spain (March 2019) is one of the cases that @B.I.B. talked about. There are other reports from France, Italy and Japan (May 2019)