Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)


Dolcevita

Senior Member
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Just thought I'd post this here. Lots of other newspapers/news website running with the AP story, such as Forbes, LA Times, etc. I won't post links to all of them.
Still an cowardly opinion piece masquerading as news for the gullible. The author obviously did not want to be challenged.
“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”
 

plawolf

Brigadier
I am still 120% opposed to such idea. There is something science/medicine should not do. The purpose of medicine is to save lives, not to purposefully get people sick. That’s against the very Hippocratic oath.

If some volunteers die, how do we treat such loss of life? The death is directly caused by a human act, I.e. purposefully getting people sick. Is this a murder? Is this an assisted suicide? Even with full consent, what do we tell the family of the volunteers? If we set a precedence of getting healthy people sick, where do we stop?
You are not considering opportunity costs. Currently thousands of people are dying of COVID19 all over the world each day.

By insisting we do everything by the book perfectly, you are potentially condemning tens or even hundreds to death needlessly if a few skipped steps means we can bring a viable vaccine out months earlier than doing it exactly by the book.

In my view, the extra risk to the volunteers is pretty much the same as sending firefighters in to tackle a building fire and rescuing people trapped inside.

Would anyone argue that we shouldn’t send in firefighters because there is a real (and actually much higher then the volunteers in the vaccine trials) chance that firefighters might be hurt or killed in the blaze?

My view is that additional risks to trial volunteers is acceptable, so long as the volunteers are fully aware of that going in, and that the steps skipped do not compromise on the safety or effectiveness of the vaccine itself.

We also need to bare in mind that a lot of the steps they are thinking of skipping, like animal trials, are of questionable worth anyways. There have been plenty of examples in medical history where something passed animal trials with flying colours only to then go on to cause massive issues for human trial volunteers at the next stage.

I would classify those as nice to have additional checks rather than being integral steps that directly impact on the effectiveness or safety of the drug in question.

The true acid test has always been human clinical trials. Animal trials just help to eliminate blatantly non-viable drugs so as to minimise human losses during clinical trials.
 

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
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US send 2 million doses of FDA-approved
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to Brazil.

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US ordered 10s of millions of hydrooxychloroquine. Now few doctors and hospitals want them, and few other countries need them. India is one that still believe in it but they can manufacture their own much cheaper. So might as well put them to "good" use and help Brazil "save" her citizens dying from Covid-19 in large numbers daily.
 

Mt1701d

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Just thought I'd post this here. Lots of other newspapers/news website running with the AP story, such as Forbes, LA Times, etc. I won't post links to all of them.
Thats pretty standard, AP is usually the first one with a story and the other ‘members and customers’ of the cooperative as AP is operated as, then refer to them as the source and use AP material.

Plus the other news agencies always do this, they quote an article/report from other news source and they are home free from any responsibility such things go south. So the other newspapers/news website running with it means nothing. Further, because all the other news agencies runs with it, it appear credible by share mass of ‘report’ as it appears to be from multiple sources. So unless the original source can provide something concrete the suppose credibility means nothing.

But having said all that I am not saying it is not credible or true, just with no evidence provided plus no name attached make the report more dubious, that’s all.
 
I take it you know better than health experts?

"Between the day the full genome was first decoded by a government lab on Jan. 2 and the day WHO declared a global emergency on Jan. 30, the outbreak spread by a factor of 100 to 200 times, according to
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from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The virus has now infected over 6 million people worldwide and killed more than 375,000.

“It’s obvious that we could have saved more lives and avoided many, many deaths if China and the WHO had acted faster,” said Ali Mokdad, a professor at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

However, Mokdad and other experts also noted that if WHO had been more confrontational with China, it could have triggered a far worse situation of not getting any information at all.

If WHO had pushed too hard, it could even have been kicked out of China, said Adam Kamradt-Scott, a global health professor at the University of Sydney. But he added that a delay of just a few days in releasing genetic sequences can be critical in an outbreak. And he noted that as Beijing’s lack of transparency becomes even clearer, WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus’s continued defense of China is problematic."
Absolutely ridiculous article! First of all, releasing the genome doesn't stop the spread; it is only a very very early step in trying to research a vaccine. You can take all necessary steps to socially distance and quarantine without knowledge of the viral genome. Secondly, China's not perfect; it's just better than any other major player out there. Blaming China for wasting this small amount of time is nonsense when the US wastes months on denial and refusal to take pre-emptive measures even after seeing China and Europe deal with its massive spread. The US can criticize China only when it does better than China; right now, it's like a fat coach potato saying Lebron James sucks at basketball.
 

localizer

Senior Member
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Imagine the world where China released the genome day 1 and shutoff travel and closed its international borders in January.

The virus would’ve spread in EU to all over the world and they will blame China for not closing off in December.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
I take it you know better than health experts?

"Between the day the full genome was first decoded by a government lab on Jan. 2 and the day WHO declared a global emergency on Jan. 30, the outbreak spread by a factor of 100 to 200 times, according to
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from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The virus has now infected over 6 million people worldwide and killed more than 375,000.

“It’s obvious that we could have saved more lives and avoided many, many deaths if China and the WHO had acted faster,” said Ali Mokdad, a professor at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

However, Mokdad and other experts also noted that if WHO had been more confrontational with China, it could have triggered a far worse situation of not getting any information at all.

If WHO had pushed too hard, it could even have been kicked out of China, said Adam Kamradt-Scott, a global health professor at the University of Sydney. But he added that a delay of just a few days in releasing genetic sequences can be critical in an outbreak. And he noted that as Beijing’s lack of transparency becomes even clearer, WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus’s continued defense of China is problematic."
What release of gnome has anything to do with the virus spread ? You are mixing 2 unrelated thing here. gnome sequence release is to enable people all over the world to design testing kit and eventually design the vaccine
Vaccine design and testing take a long of time and 1 week late won't make any difference!

China acted properly releasing the gnome sequence in record speed Compare to SAR Virus China didn't release it 6 month after the outbreak Well US is not even the paragon of virtue how long it take them to act on the Aid or Swine flu out break are they prompt?. The record speak for itself

China did warn the WTO of probable epidemic as early as Jan 3rd go look it up yourself there is plenty of literature and video about it I don't have to ad nauseum repeat it
Did the west acted on those warning No they are to busy criticizing,gloating and trolling China if I remember correctly
 

shanlung

Junior Member
Registered Member
What release of gnome has anything to do with the virus spread ? You are mixing 2 unrelated thing here. gnome sequence release is to enable people all over the world to design testing kit and eventually design the vaccine
Vaccine design and testing take a long of time and 1 week late won't make any difference!

China acted properly releasing the gnome sequence in record speed Compare to SAR Virus China didn't release it 6 month after the outbreak Well US is not even the paragon of virtue how long it take them to act on the Aid or Swine flu out break are they prompt?. The record speak for itself

China did warn the WTO of probable epidemic as early as Jan 3rd go look it up yourself there is plenty of literature and video about it I don't have to ad nauseum repeat it
Did the west acted on those warning No they are to busy criticizing,gloating and trolling China if I remember correctly

And once again for those hard of understanding, or chose not to understand and those asleep.

This might be the 5th time I posted this. The first time was about 14 Feb 2020, or a day after the Youtube on the timeline came out.

Those pretending to sleep or pretending not to understand will not be affected and undeterred of course.
Perhaps lightning might struck them before covid19.

The timeline of covid19 in early days when covid19 came bursting onto China.
The response of China was swift and breath taking especially when we seen the fiasco in USA and the blame games D and Pompeo indulge in and their smoke and mirrors & dog and pony shows.


It will be useful to revisit this again.
Especially with the gift of hindsight, and witnessing whats done in the Western world and USA in their fight.
They complained and moaned and bitched that China was very slow and refusing to release information.
Consider when this happend in Wuhan, so little was known at that time.
The West cannot make this excuse. They seen the fight and how the fight by China against covid19 unfolding over the weeks
and months buying the West time to prepare themselves.
No need for West to build hospitals from ground in ten days as done by China.
They spend the time mocking and laughing and taking glee in the growing and growing numbers of stricken and death in China.
Drawing cartoons to mock and disparage China and Chinese.
Wasting the time China bought for them
To me, and I imagine to you all here, the speed of China response was breath taking.
And China dared to do a lock down on eve of Chinese New Year .
And we seen what Western countries done and failing and failing despite their much vaunted
Democracy, Freedom of Speech, and Consideration for Human Values and Human rights by throwing their people
under the bus while their Politicans continue to make hay like there is no tomorrow.
Wuhan was the nerve center for rail and road all for all China.


 

localizer

Senior Member
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Very interesting:
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Since April 26, Wuhan CDC has taken sputum and pharyngeal swab samples from 106 asymptomatic patients and sent them to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences and Hubei CDC for virus isolation culture and sequencing analysis. No active virus was detected from these samples.
Since May 14, the Wuhan CDC has sampled contacts and living environments of the 300 asymptomatic patients. Collected wipe samples of masks, drinking glasses, toothbrushes, mobile phones and floors, furniture, door handles, toilets, floor drains, etc. used by these patients were taken. In addition, samples of elevator keys, corridor items, etc, were collected. In total, there were 3,343 samples. All tested negative.
So they test positive for virus, but negative for active virus.


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@shanlung what is going on there, why does Singapore need so many South Asian migrant workers?
 
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