Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

KYli

Brigadier
It was driven by politics. China has the resource to ramp up vaccination among the elderly. But Xi said we must maintain zero Covid. Who’s going to go against Xi right before the Party Congress.

Now that the meeting is over, we are seeing loosening of restrictions because Xi said so despite the fact that it’s winter flu season.
If those protesters and their supporters didn't come out and force the government to speed up the reopening, China would not loose the restrictions this quick. Now you tried to blame Xi for opening up in the flu season. This is purely disgusted. Most foreign and China experts all claim that China wants to reopen after May, 2023. I am not sure that is the case but many signs do point to that is what they want. It is you and your kind that want to open immediately but you turn around now and blame Xi for granting your wish. That's why I have no respect for you people.

That's a complete lie. China has attempted a few times to drive up vaccination among elderly without too much successes. It only has success among 60 to 79 range as most of them don't have long term diseases that make vaccination easier.

Most doctors don't want to force elderly to vaccinate as they are afraid of the fact that they would be blamed if the elderly passed away. It has been a problem for sometime. The government just doesn't have the incentives to tackle the issue. After what happened in HK, they tried again to vaccinate the elderly which bring the vaccination rate among elderly over 80 from 50% to 65% but booster shots still come up short.

Unless they decided to make vaccines mandatory for elderly, they would need to deploy tool such as fear to force elderly to vaccinate. This has happened in HK. As the covid spread and many elderly died, many elderly finally got afraid and decided to vaccinate which bring the vaccination rate in HK much more higher in a matter of a month.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
If those protesters and their supporters didn't come out and force the government to speed up the reopening, China would not loose the restrictions this quick. Now you tried to blame Xi for opening up in the flu season. This is purely disgusted. Most foreign and China experts all claim that China wants to reopen after May, 2023. I am not sure that is the case but many signs do point to that is what they want. It is you and your kind that want to open immediately but you turn around now and blame Xi for granting your wish. That's why I have no respect for you people.

That's a complete lie. China has attempted a few times to drive up vaccination among elderly without too much successes. It only has success among 60 to 79 range as most of them don't have long term diseases that make vaccination easier.

Most doctors don't want to force elderly to vaccinate as they are afraid of the fact that they would be blamed if the elderly passed away. It has been a problem for sometime. The government just doesn't have the incentives to tackle the issue. After what happened in HK, they tried again to vaccinate the elderly which bring the vaccination rate among elderly over 80 from 50% to 65% but booster shots still come up short.

Unless they decided to make vaccines mandatory for elderly, they would need to deploy tool such as fear to force elderly to vaccinate. This has happened in HK. As the covid spread and many elderly died, many elderly finally got afraid and decided to vaccinate which bring the vaccination rate in HK much more higher in a matter of a month.
A few of us has said since the beginning that mass lockdowns is not the right policy for omicron, and China will likely loosen restrictions after the Part Congress. Thats exactly what happened. The recent protests only expedited what was already in progress.

Upholding zero-Covid policies became a performance indicator for local officials before the Party Congress. Omicron was portrayed as a huge threat that will jeopardize social stability, but in the end it was the lockdowns that caused exactly that.
But who's going to go against Xi and put their job on the line, who dares...unless of course you are a loyalist and can get promoted even if you mess up.

China is now finally implementing what many experts have recommended for over a year. But many that spoke out against continued zero covid for omicron were initially censored. Fundamentally, no new breakthroughs have been made against the virus. Existing vaccines are all only partially effective. People will get sick, most will not die, and will not result in social upheaval. China is opening up because Xi said so.
 

KYli

Brigadier
A few of us has said since the beginning that mass lockdowns is not the right policy for omicron, and China will likely loosen restrictions after the Part Congress. Thats exactly what happened. The recent protests only expedited what was already in progress.
I have already said multiple times that China would loose restrictions in late Spring or early Summer. By then, new vaccines and medicine would be ready and can be rollout. Given what happened in HK, you are delusional to think China could reopen during the outbreak in Shanghai. Party Congress or not, China won't accept 1.6 millions deaths so you can have you so called freedom.
Upholding zero-Covid policies became a performance indicator for local officials before the Party Congress. Omicron was portrayed as a huge threat that will jeopardize social stability, but in the end it was the lockdowns that caused exactly that.
If Omicron isn't a threat, then why HK has over 8000 deaths. Why Japan and Taiwan have a complete breakdown in their health care system. The speed of Omicron spreading is a very big problem. Most health care system just can't cope with such increase of patients. Western countries already have millions most vulnerable deaths o they can cope with it. Other countries have more favorable demographics to cope with Omicron. But that isn't the case for most East Asian countries, that's why even after reopening Japan, Taiwan and South Korea still have many restrictions.

I have zero sympathetic for those college kids. They are a bunch of crybabies that crying for movies, travels and partying. I only support reopening due the fact that many sectors have been hard hit by zero covid and under tremendous pressure especially many border cities.

But who's going to go against Xi and put their job on the line, who dares...unless of course you are a loyalist and can get promoted even if you mess up.
Xi saves millions of lives by imposing zero covid. Who is going to get blamed for millions deaths in the West. Nobody is held responsible or accountable. Of course, you don't care. You only care about your little freedom.

China is now finally implementing what many experts have recommended for over a year. But many that spoke out against continued zero covid for omicron were initially censored. Fundamentally, no new breakthroughs have been made against the virus. Existing vaccines are all only partially effective. People will get sick, most will not die, and will not result in social upheaval. China is opening up because Xi said so.
The so called experts can't prevent 8000 deaths in HK. They better shut up as 8000 deaths in March 2022 would equal to 1.6 millions deaths in China. Are these experts going to be held accountable? No, these so called experts would just disappear and reappear a few months later with a different talking points. Hong Kong has too many of these so called experts that we called them big mouth do nothing and ever changing talking points losers.

The only opportunity that China could try is to look into a window of reopening after they ended lockdown in Shanghai which is around June. If they imposed mandatory vaccination for elderly, then they could possibly try to loose restrictions during November or December when most elderly should get their booster shots. However, they choose not to impose mandatory vaccination so they only increase vaccination for 60 or above by 10% to over 90% and 80 or above by 20%.

Any delusional people who think China could reopen any earlier than that is just delusional and have total no regard of millions of deaths due to their own selfish reasons.
 
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Deleted member 23272

Guest
It would be shocking if that's the case but I very much doubt so. The only question is why the delay in vaccination for the oldest age groups although quick gains were made recently.
Is that such a hard pill to swallow? Seems that for a lot of folks here outside of sucking at propaganda and failing to create a competent national football team, the government is incapable of making mistakes. Well, the people at the top are not infallible, they're human like anyone else and prone to error. Even several of the statements coming out from them in the past few days corroroborates some sentiment on their part that they messed up in their implementation of zero-Covid this year.

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But just like a good government, or what any good human being should do, they owned up to it and rectified their mistakes. It'll be a long road to recovery, but at least China has taken the first steps. We'll just have to see how it goes from there.
 

MortyandRick

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sure you guys can argue either side but In my opinion I see this as a very politically shewed move.

In Chinese culture, one must save their family members as much as possible. That's why we see a lot more Chinese patients reject a DNR order than western patients or family members. In the west, they are more likely to agree to DNR for their family. They don't want the family member to suffer a prolonged life. But a lot of Chinese family want to sustain life as much as possible.

So politically if china opened up sooner and many people die, the CPC will be accused of not valuing life or valuing money over life. That's a big hit to their legitimacy. But instead they held off for so long with zero covid until many people can't stand it anymore. Now the protests occured, they are rolling back a lot of measures. But they can argue that they tried zero covid to save lives however the Chinese people can't stand it anymore. Now if people die of covid or infections, it's harder to pin this entirely on Xi since he can argue that he tried to maintain zero covid as much as possible until people can't handle it anymore and the people decided to end such policies.

Now if people die, those anti Xi forces will have less reasons to criticize Xi's administration since many people will argue that it was not sustainable anymore anyhow. Additionally the central govt did produce a paper outlining that some lockdowns are too draconian but left it largely to local govt to implement. Then when shit hits the fan, they can point to the local govt as not being smart enough to implement it well.

Either way it would be harder to blame Xi entirely for such deaths. Politically shewed move in my opinion. Just look at how quickly china changed their policy in regards to the protests compared to Iran. I guess for a one party system to stay in power, they need to be at times more politically shewed than democracies since they have to take all the blame is something goes wrong.

Additionally it shows that china listens to it's people and allows protests. Contrast to the US who denied rail workers the right to protest. A lot easier to counter western hypocrisy. I just made this argument to a colleague who was just ranting on china. That shut him up good. lol.
 

supercat

Major
Did that scientists really worked at Wuhan lab ?
I will give that guy today's "Putin soiled himself" investigative reporting award.
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Even NYT and CNN admitted that the Wuhan wet market is the likely origin of the virus.
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I think it's too early to tell whether the opening will be as smooth as predicted, we're just in the beginning of re-opening, basically what the rest of the world was at around a year ago if we're going by vaccination rates, it's too early to sing the high praise of how many lives were saved.

It was driven by politics. China has the resource to ramp up vaccination among the elderly. But Xi said we must maintain zero Covid. Who’s going to go against Xi right before the Party Congress.

Now that the meeting is over, we are seeing loosening of restrictions because Xi said so despite the fact that it’s winter flu season.
My hunch is that the rules of zero-COVID have been relaxed only in a few cities, most predominantly in Guangzhou, on a trial basis. I don't think the government will hesitate to lock down again if necessary.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
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The US isn't giving their vaccine for free to China. They hope to make trillions of dollars from yearly plus vaccines from China going into the foreseeable future. You know how the US propaganda claims China's vaccine is inferior because it didn't have a high efficacy like Pfizer's and Moderna's claimed with its first shots? Guess what? The new vaccine they have that covers Omicron variants only has at most a 57% efficacy. China's first vaccine was better than that in the high 60s yet somehow considered inferior. China's vaccine was used all over the world and those countries didn't suffer as many deaths as the king of COVID deaths, the US.

Today more vaccinated Americans are dying from COVID than unvaccinated Americans. That means it's the old supposedly superior vaccine because something like less than 30% of people who were vaccinated previously are taking the new shot that covers Omicron variants.
My friends 22 year old son just got Covid-19 again and that's despite having a booster shot using Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. If the argument being made is that Pfizer and Moderna vaccine should be used in China to stop or stem the upcoming wave of positive cases along with the unfortunate deaths from the virus then why aren't the cases in many countries (Japan, South Korea, U.S.A. EU) that use such vaccines been extinguished let alone the deaths minimized when we all know that it's the opposite is happening.

Those barking hyenas have simply decided to adopt the see no evil, hear no evil approach as if the virus has been conquered like magic. CDC has stopped recording the cases and deaths if my memory is correct on this fact. The simple uncomfortable truth on this issue is that western public have simply given up and are fed up with the inconvenience of being see sawed from their governments actions that weren't bringing the intended outcome.

I am quite astounded to see persistent propaganda on this mother f..ng use of western vaccines for China to use in order for that country to inoculate their people from the scourge of the virus despite the evidence to the contrary. It's quite scary to see how deluded and ideological people are evidence or not.
 

tygyg1111

Senior Member
Registered Member
You know for a fact that @Petrolicious88 would be complaining and calling for revolution against Xi and the CCP if they opened up and let several million people die.

There is no argument to win here. He will flip flop like a fish had it been the opposite scenario instead of Covid preventive measures.
7 digit deaths and a slew of non working vaccines must sting
 
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