Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)


OppositeDay

Junior Member
Registered Member


It’s a shame that 3 people in the placebo group died during the trial. In the spring semester I was teaching bioethics and one of the term paper topics I assigned was whether it’s ethical to conduct placebo-controlled trials when effective vaccines were already available. Every student who chose to write on the topic said no, but of course the real world is more complicated. Vaccine being available for the rich doesn’t mean it’s available for the poor. But still it’s a great shame that rich countries are hoarding vaccines in the hope of some of their anti-vexxers might change their mind, while people who chose to participate in a phase iii trial (who obviously are not anti-vaccine) died because they got a placebo.
 

daifo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Many coronaviruses share key features with SARS CoV 2, but only very distantly related species share fusion cleavage sites. Suggesting non natural origin of SARS CoV 2. Natural evolution of SARS CoV 2 is astronomically small.

Many published scientist disagree though
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New member, 2 post just to make inflammatory allegations? mmm
 
Evolution works in small incremental steps. The only way SARS CoV 2 can evolve from distantly related bat coronaviruses which have fusion cleavage sites and become closely related to SARS which does not have fusion cleavage sites is one huge evolutionary jump in one step. Such probability is extremely small, not much bigger than the probability bacteriaphage suddenly mutates and gains the ability to infect humans. Yes, the probability is not zero, but it is extremely small, less than 0.000000000000001% per day, less than probability a large asteroid hits Earth and causes a major extinction event.

Unless scientists can find a species in bats that is closely related to SARS CoV 2 and also has fusion cleavage sites, then they cannot prove SARS CoV 2 is natural and not man made.
You have the burden of proof wrong; any accusations of an artifical origin must be proven. It is not assumed to be artificial if there is no proof that it is natural. Otherwise, the US needs to prove that it came from nature lest it be assumed to have come from Detrick.
 

Phead128

Senior Member
TomSelleck said:
Evolution works in small incremental steps. The only way SARS CoV 2 can evolve from distantly related bat coronaviruses which have fusion cleavage sites and become closely related to SARS which does not have fusion cleavage sites is one huge evolutionary jump in one step. Such probability is extremely small, not much bigger than the probability bacteriaphage suddenly mutates and gains the ability to infect humans.

It is NOT RARE for mutations for cross-species infection..... It only took 1-2 years and a few variants for COVID to be able to infect laboratory mice! The bat-to-humans theory is VERY plausible.

Laboratory mice was originally resistant to the original SAR-CoV-2 virus (i.e., it could not infect lab mice), but the newer variants of SAR-CoV-2 virus can now infect laboratory mice! Cross-species mutations only took a few variants over 1-2 years!
Fast-spreading variants that were first identified in the United Kingdom, South Africa and Brazil have not yet been tested for their ability to infect animals. But all the new variants contain a mutation that can make the virus infectious to laboratory mice (Mus musculus), which are resistant to versions without the mutation
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. The new variants’ global spread increases the possibility that house mice, and perhaps also rats, will acquire the infection from people and contaminated environments such as sewers, says Gryseels

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So that shows you it doesn't take much to adapt to new species, whether bats, mice, or humans. The zoonotic origin of COVID from bats is very viable theory. And now that SAR-CoV-2 can infect mice/rats, then we are definitely fucked as there is no way this virus will ever disappear.
 
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