Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[NiuBiDaRen]

That is why China has near zero new cases, why Chinese can live almost freely every day right now. You gain months and years of freedom by paying 21 days. Simple math. If someone is not able to take that 21 days, he/she really has a nerve too weak to be a Chinese.

I would say it's not simply about enforcing a one off 21 day quarantine.

Hong Kong and India enforced 21 day lockdowns/quarantines and yet faced trouble containing COVID.

On the other hand some of my Chinese friends simply spent their time back in China quarantining for a few days at home before being allowed to go out. This shows it is not simply about the quarantine length, but enforcement. And more importantly, a whole of society response encompassing individual responsibility, strong contact tracing protocols and adequate healthcare fighting facilities.

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Also, China followed a flexible guideline of allowing the last leg to be served at home. Something Hong Kong should emulate. Research shows that a few days of solitary confinement has long term psychological effects. Beyond 14 days, things start to get worrying for many. Hence I applaud China for installing the change of environment protocol during 21 day quarantine by allowing travellers to return home for more quarantine after 14 days. It really is the ideal set up and shows flexibility but still, effectiveness.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Nothing... so far.

If your reaction was worst for first dose, it's technically possible you've been exposed to virus before, possibly asymptomatic infection or symptoms too mild to recognize as covid.

 

[voyager1]

You are right. Fosun is only to market it in China. For that, I hope it dies, leave the Chinese market to Chinese mRNA candidates.

Disgusting. Its like they want to squash local competition before it gets stronger.

China should buy from them for domestic useml. And when the domestic mRNA, end of the year, gets ready start buying it and drop Fosun

 

[4Runner]

That is why China has near zero new cases, why Chinese can live almost freely every day right now. You gain months and years of freedom by paying 21 days. Simple math. If someone is not able to take that 21 days, he/she really has a nerve too weak to be a Chinese.

And that is emblematic in that the western countries nowadays cannot get real things done. People want to have the cake and eat it too, so are politicians, all the while bitching and moaning about their problems on China.

 

[4Runner]

Disgusting. Its like they want to squash local competition before it gets stronger.

China should buy from them for domestic useml. And when the domestic mRNA, end of the year, gets ready start buying it and drop Fosun

That I have a different take. It actually showed Fosun had foresight in the early days of the pandemic. Or simply they made a commercial bet and it pays off. Do you still remember around that time Trump admin wanted to buy out BioNTech? I am curiously if Pfizer deal was before or after Fosun deal.

 

[taxiya]

I would say it's not simply about enforcing a one off 21 day quarantine.

Hong Kong and India enforced 21 day lockdowns/quarantines and yet faced trouble containing COVID.

On the other hand some of my Chinese friends simply spent their time back in China quarantining for a few days at home before being allowed to go out. This shows it is not simply about the quarantine length, but enforcement. And more importantly, a whole of society response encompassing individual responsibility, strong contact tracing protocols and adequate healthcare fighting facilities.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Also, China followed a flexible guideline of allowing the last leg to be served at home. Something Hong Kong should emulate. Research shows that a few days of solitary confinement has long term psychological effects. Beyond 14 days, things start to get worrying for many. Hence I applaud China for installing the change of environment protocol during 21 day quarantine by allowing travellers to return home for more quarantine after 14 days. It really is the ideal set up and shows flexibility but still, effectiveness.

Of course, the result is not only because of 21 day quarantine, but I was only replying the point you picked out.

Mandatory quarantine for travelers from outside of China is 14 days by law. There is no flexibility here. I highly doubt the "few days" thing. It is either a breach of law which is punishable by administrative detention afterwards, or you misunderstood your friend. A much publicized case was a Chinese woman returned from Australia (2020) went shopping during 14 days home quarantine and was spotted by neighbors. She was subsequently fired by her Australian employer who has business office in China, she also received administrative punishment (fine or detention, I don't remember which).

About the last 7 days. It is only a possibility, not a free choice by traveler. And can be tightened if the need comes. During Jan and Feb, there was a person who finished his 14 days at entry point in Nanjing, then traveled to home on HSR, then picked up by ambulance at the train station. He was found to be positive during the 7 days. When the news broke out there was voices suggesting 21 days all in the center. Multiple trains passengers were traced in the hundreds. If some of these passengers were fund to be infected, it would be quite likely the "21 day in center" became reality.

Also, different places have different rules, all of them are tighter than mandated by central government. During Chinese New Year, Nanjing had 14 (center) +14 (home), Beijing was 14 (center) +7 (home) +7 (ok to out, but not social activity).

During that period, Beijing also forbade oversea travelers to enter Beijing within 21 days after landing at airports of other provinces. As a protocol, lot of airport such as Xian in Shaanxi act as "分流" offload airport for Beijing. If a person's flight to Beijing was dispatched to Xian, the person will have to finish his 21 days in Xian before he could return home in Beijing. For this person it is 21 days in the quarantine center (usually a hotel).

 

[NiuBiDaRen]

Of course, the result is not only because of 21 day quarantine, but I was only replying the point you picked out.

Mandatory quarantine for travelers from outside of China is 14 days by law. There is no flexibility here. I highly doubt the "few days" thing. It is either a breach of law which is punishable by administrative detention afterwards, or you misunderstood your friend. A much publicized case was a Chinese woman returned from Australia (2020) went shopping during 14 days home quarantine and was spotted by neighbors. She was subsequently fired by her Australian employer who has business office in China, she also received administrative punishment (fine or detention, I don't remember which).

About the last 7 days. It is only a possibility, not a free choice by traveler. And can be tightened if the need comes. During Jan and Feb, there was a person who finished his 14 days at entry point in Nanjing, then traveled to home on HSR, then picked up by ambulance at the train station. He was found to be positive during the 7 days. When the news broke out there was voices suggesting 21 days all in the center. Multiple trains passengers were traced in the hundreds. If some of these passengers were fund to be infected, it would be quite likely the "21 day in center" became reality.

Also, different places have different rules, all of them are tighter than mandated by central government. During Chinese New Year, Nanjing had 14 (center) +14 (home), Beijing was 14 (center) +7 (home) +7 (ok to out, but not social activity).

During that period, Beijing also forbade oversea travelers to enter Beijing within 21 days after landing at airports of other provinces. As a protocol, lot of airport such as Xian in Shaanxi act as "分流" offload airport for Beijing. If a person's flight to Beijing was dispatched to Xian, the person will have to finish his 21 days in Xian before he could return home in Beijing. For this person it is 21 days in the quarantine center (usually a hotel).

Technically the quarantinees should be transported by private coach or taxi back home, and not allowed to take public transport back home for quarantine at home. Not a good idea at all.

In addition I would have proposed that the last 7 days of the 21 days be allowed interaction with one or two chosen fellow quarantinees in a quarantine room, and no one else. I am approaching this from a psychological and humanitarian perspective.

 

[supersnoop]

I dont understand why the US doesnt digitise this stuff. Like, have a database of who is vaccinated (I hope they already have it...) and then just generate a unique QR code and you are done.

Moronic gov

I have done a little cursory reading on this.
First and foremost, Healthcare is a private business in the US. You have 1000's of businesses with all their own ways of doing things.
Second, as mentioned, HIPAA is strict, you would have to build a secure access system, but no one wants to pay for that.

Even in a single payer system, it's not so simple. Ontario has been working on a system for 10 years, still nothing really to show for it. Part of it is corruption, the agency responsible has been rocked with numerous spending scandals.

Really stupid and annoying because I think it would save a lot of time and money for a lot of people.

 

[taxiya]

Technically the quarantinees should be transported by private coach or taxi back home, and not allowed to take public transport back home for quarantine at home. Not a good idea at all.

In addition I would have proposed that the last 7 days of the 21 days be allowed interaction with one or two chosen fellow quarantinees in a quarantine room, and no one else. I am approaching this from a psychological and humanitarian perspective.

Your first part was the same question many Chinese also asked. It is a practical problem between different geography area. A journey between home and offloading port is usually over one thousand kilometres. Sending a single person in a dedicated vehicle with escort personnel (without this guarantee there is no isolation) is a very high cost. The mandatory 14 days is the responsibility of the entry port, the 7 days is the home government. There is apparently a responsibility gap in between and related cost. So far the central government has not make measures to cover this gap. If the need arise such as infection of fellow passengers, I think the central government will enforce 21 days instead, which is cheaper and doable.

The second part would unfortunately kill the meaning of quarantine. The assumption for quarantine is that everybody in quarantine is potentially transmitting virus during the 14 days and even beyond. This is proven to be true by around 5 cases (Beijing, Dalian, Qingdao and Nanjing). Allowing such interaction will infect possible healthy people among these fellows by an unaware infected person. The newly infected people may then be released before showing symptoms.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do it. People have to tough up in a tough time.

 

[NiuBiDaRen]

Your first part was the same question many Chinese also asked. It is a practical problem between different geography area. A journey between home and offloading port is usually over one thousand kilometres. Sending a single person in a dedicated vehicle with escort personnel (without this guarantee there is no isolation) is a very high cost. The mandatory 14 days is the responsibility of the entry port, the 7 days is the home government. There is apparently a responsibility gap in between and related cost. So far the central government has not make measures to cover this gap. If the need arise such as infection of fellow passengers, I think the central government will enforce 21 days instead, which is cheaper and doable.

The second part would unfortunately kill the meaning of quarantine. The assumption for quarantine is that everybody in quarantine is potentially transmitting virus during the 14 days and even beyond. This is proven to be true by around 5 cases (Beijing, Dalian, Qingdao and Nanjing). Allowing such interaction will infect possible healthy people among these fellows by an unaware infected person. The newly infected people may then be released before showing symptoms.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do it. People have to tough up in a tough time.

Indeed the first would be a logistical challenge. To be solved you would need the arrivee to land at an airport near his home and not at a faraway airport. For example you would have to mandate a Chengdu hukou has to arrive in a Sichuan airport. Nevertheless I do acknowledge the complexity involved.

I disagree that it kills the meaning of quarantine. This is past the 14 day incubation window. The last leg would be extremely limited social interaction with only one or two humans. This strikes a compromise between virological and psychological needs.


Hannah Clapham, a public health professor at the National University of Singapore, said that while a three-week quarantine would “perhaps slightly reduce the number of infectious individuals entering a population,” the government should weigh that small potential gain against the policy’s steep price.

The 21-day rule was “just to play it safe,” said Jin Dongyan, a molecular virologist at the University of Hong Kong. Still, he added, “I think they’re doing too much.”

I think 21 days is fine, if you allow extremely limited social interaction at the very end. Anyway this is all just personal opinion.