Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

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Colonel
Negative press has dampened the demand of AstraZenceca but UK results showed that AstraZeneca outperformed Pfizer. Not sure who is telling the truth. That's why making comparison without a simple standardized criteria is such a bad idea. It is a good thing that China and Chinese companies maintained silence and just forged ahead.

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People in France, Germany, and the UK are turning down the AstraZeneca vaccine because they want the Pfizer one instead, reports say

  • Some people in France, Germany, and the UK are insisting on a particular coronavirus vaccine.
  • European officials are struggling to give out AstraZeneca's jab, citing concerns about performance.
  • The Washington Post reported that some in the UK preferred AstraZeneca's locally developed vaccine.
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    .
People receiving vaccines in the UK, France, and Germany are complicating the rollouts by trying to insist on receiving a particular shot, according to reports.

In continental Europe, officials have pointed to unfilled appointments and empty vaccination hubs when the AstraZeneca vaccine is on offer.

The resistance appears to stem from trial data that suggested AstraZeneca's vaccine was less effective than the one from Pfizer, the other widely used vaccine in Europe.​


In the UK, there are anecdotal reports of some people insisting on the Pfizer jab and others pushing for the AstraZeneca one, citing its local credentials.

Here's what's happening:

  • In Germany, hundreds of thousands of doses of the AstraZeneca shot have gone unused,
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    . Fewer than 200 people were showing up for 3,800 daily appointments at centers in Berlin offering only the AstraZeneca shot,
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    .
  • Officials in Austria and Bulgaria have also described public resistance to the AstraZeneca vaccine,
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    .
  • In Italy, teachers and police officers have expressed concerns about the AstraZeneca vaccine,
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    .
  • In France, officials
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    after several workers who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine called in sick over flu-like side effects. Last month, President Emmanuel Macron
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    .
  • In Sweden, two regions
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    after hospital staffers who had received one jab reported mild side effects.
In the UK, the picture is more complicated.
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that some Britons were canceling and rebooking vaccination appointments to secure either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca shot based on rumors and insider information about which centers have which doses.

Johnson thumbs up vaccine astraZeneca UK

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson visits a coronavirus vaccination center in southeast London on February 14. Jeremy Selwyn-WPA Pool/Getty Images
The outlet reported that some people were insisting on getting the AstraZeneca shot because AstraZeneca is jointly headquartered in the UK and developed its vaccine with the University of Oxford.

A doctor
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that while his medical colleagues had a slight preference for Pfizer's vaccine, his patients tended to prefer the Oxford-AstraZeneca "made-in-Britain" vaccine.

Differences in data on efficacy​

The dynamic appears to be shaped by data from the phase-three trials of both vaccines.

Late last year, AstraZeneca
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that its vaccine was 62% effective after two full doses in its trial but 90% effective after a half-dose and a full dose,
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, as Insider's Isabella Jibilian
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.

British regulators now say
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, while the European Medicines Agency says it's 60%, The Post reported.


Compared with the 95% efficacy that Pfizer found in trials of its vaccine, it might seem that the AstraZeneca vaccine does not perform as well.

But Andrew Pollard, a scientist who led the AstraZeneca vaccine development, told The Post that the figures were not directly comparable.

"Unless you run the trials head-to-head, you don't really know whether a 95 percent figure on trial and 62 percent in another trial mean the same thing," Pollard told The Post.

Results from such a head-to-head trial in the UK should be available soon, Sarah Gilbert, another leader of the vaccine's development, told The Post.

The UK's
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, where Pollard is a lead scientist, has said the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines both "give very high protection against severe disease" and "have good safety profiles."

Pollard told The Post that he would personally "have whichever vaccine offered."

Real-world data in countries where the vaccines have been rolled out, such as
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and
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, is starting to provide more clarity on the vaccines' effectiveness.

"Unless you run the trials head-to-head, you don't really know whether a 95 percent figure on trial and 62 percent in another trial mean the same thing," Pollard told The Post.

Hmm... That's what we've been saying here when some of the western media keep on understating the result of the Sinovac vaccine trials in a number of countries by literally choosing the worst of the results without even mentioning the better ones.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Negative press has dampened the demand of AstraZenceca but UK results showed that AstraZeneca outperformed Pfizer. Not sure who is telling the truth. That's why making comparison without a simple standardized criteria is such a bad idea. It is a good thing that China and Chinese companies maintained silence and just forged ahead.
Yes, one of them could be lying. However, it is also highly possible that both could be telling facts, based on their different protocols and different conditions in their tests. This happens almost on a daily basis in labs and clinical trials. Unless their findings are opposite, some difference is acceptable. In fact, some difference is expected. I would actually feel something fishy is going on if they came out with identical or very similar numbers. If you remember, I cast some doubt on the Israeli number at the beginning when they said that their Pfizer efficacy is almost identical to the one found by the clinical trials. Such nice agreement sounded too good to be true...

In your article, AZ's own clinical trial shows an efficacy of 62%, the British efficacy is 70% while EU is 60%. In my opinion, these numbers are very close. A mere 10-15% difference in such massive scale may not be statistically significant at all. Even in a tightly controlled lab experiment using simple systems like cultured cells, each parameter typically associate with ~10-20% standard deviation. If human beings are involved, standard deviation will be even larger (as high as 30-40% sometimes). So if you compare the statistical differences among the AZ, UK, and UE numbers, I can almost guarantee you that they won't show any statistical significance. So in reality, these numbers are the same. Not as effective as Pfizer and Moderna, but still a very effective vaccine.
 

KYli

Brigadier
It isn't vaccine fears but rather most Chinese feel like relatively safe and is not in a hurry to get vaccinated. But the vaccination is moving along nicely. Just not as rapid pace as most Western countries that are desperate to get vaccinated due to the surge of covid cases.
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How about Western nations especially the US send their vaccines to help these nations now. Put up or shut up.
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vesicles

Colonel
I am very surprised that the Sinopharm vaccine has been approved for children's use so quickly. It was my understanding that children needed a lot more time than adults to make sure the vaccine is absolutely safe. Is the Chinese government that confident of Sinopharm's safety?
The article says "Results from clinical trials involving the younger population have shown "no obvious differences" from trial data concerning those aged 18 to 59 years old, Liu said during an interview with China Central Television on Sunday.
"So we believe those aged 3 to 17 will soon be able to use the vaccines," he said.
"

I have not seen the actual data, but it's likely that they started the trials of the 3-17 group and the 18-59 group simultaneously. They ended the trial of the older age group sooner because these people are at a higher risk and need the vaccine sooner. They let the trial of the younger group go several months longer so that they can assess the risks and side effects more carefully. The trials for adults lasted about 3 months (may have ended in July/August of 2020). If they are reaching their conclusion on the kids now, it's possible that they ended their kids trial about a month or two ago. So the kids trial lasted 6-7 months, twice as long as the adult trial. I'm not sure the doses for the younger group is the same as the older age group. It may be different because of the lower body mass of kids...
 

vesicles

Colonel
I definitely understand the hesitation of people living in China, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand. Like I've said before, they don't have a pandemic. Why risking the unknown side effects for something you don't have and won't see for the near future? If I lived in one of those countries, I will wait and see too...
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Question
Why do I keep hearing in the news that "Chinese companies have not released the full data on Phase III trials"?
I thought the relevant data was already available which is why UAE was using the shot (They ran one of the trials)

I definitely think Chinese people are not hesitant in the sense that they don't believe. However, as we see with all the changing info week by week, people want to see any bugs worked out.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Question
Why do I keep hearing in the news that "Chinese companies have not released the full data on Phase III trials"?
I thought the relevant data was already available which is why UAE was using the shot (They ran one of the trials)

I definitely think Chinese people are not hesitant in the sense that they don't believe. However, as we see with all the changing info week by week, people want to see any bugs worked out.
China has 4 vaccines that have reported the Phase 3 trial results. However, they haven't been peer reviewed and published in prestige scientific journal. In addition, Sinopharm and Sinovac didn't break down the data as Pfizer did. So Western media claimed China hasn't released full data. Both Sinopharm and Sinovac have submitted the full data to WHO so we probably would get more update soon.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It isn't vaccine fears but rather most Chinese feel like relatively safe and is not in a hurry to get vaccinated. But the vaccination is moving along nicely. Just not as rapid pace as most Western countries that are desperate to get vaccinated due to the surge of covid cases.
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How about Western nations especially the US send their vaccines to help these nations now. Put up or shut up.
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Everybody is in the water, the west is holding the life-boat and saving themselves. The other people are struggling to survive in the wave. Then comes the Chinese boat. The west shout at people in water "I will come to save you after I am safe and only when there is still space left", "in the mean time, do not ever climb up to the Chinese boat", "the Chinese boat is not as safe as in the water". Then the west conclude "although China is saving lives in imminent danger, I am going to save all of you when you don't need help anymore". What a brain-fart!o_O:rolleyes:
 
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