Chinese shipbuilding industry

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
One thing the Eastern shipbuilders have neglected and a market European shipbuilders have cornered is making cruise ships. That is about to change.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
That was probably because the Europeans like going on cruises more than Asians.

Actually, over the years, there has been a growing market for Chinese cruises, such as Yangtze cruises, cruises from China to the Antarctic, or China-US cruises.

The market with the most cruises are the Americans and that's why the two biggest cruise liners, Carnival Cruises and Royal Caribbean are US companies. Carnival Cruises happens to be the partner and customer of this new China built cruise ship.

The first truly big Chinese built luxury cruise liner was supposed to be --- get this --- the Titanic II. This was supposed to be a near replica of the original Titanic but with all the modern technologies and safety modifications. This was a project by an Australian billionaire and a state owned Chinese shipyard is the builder. Funding issues delayed its launch from 2016 to 2022.

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There are three Carnival cruise ships that were built in Japan---most are built in Europe by Fincantieri. These ships serve the Asian routes. They gained notoriety earlier this year because of the Covid 19 infections if you remember the news.
 

by78

General
Icebreakers, both old and new.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Targeting zero carbon by mid 2050-2060 like the EU and China is planning may result in nuclear powered cargo ships. But is this a good idea or the green revolution taking it too far?

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Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
David axe strikes.

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Aging population -> slower economy -> No more ships.

He totally totalled it.

The Chinese Navy Can’t Grow Forever—The Slowdown Might Start Soon
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Don’t look now, but China’s breakneck naval expansion might start slowing down—and for one simple reason.

It takes a lot of time, money and manpower to maintain a big fleet. And even in China, those resources are finite

That, for American planners, is the reassuring conclusion of a new analysis from Christopher Carlson, writing for the U.S. Naval War College’s China Maritime Studies Institute.

Carlson’s report is doubly reassuring for American officials because the U.S. Navy is struggling to define, and fund, its own plans for a bigger fleet.

It’s indisputable that the Chinese navy has gotten bigger and better—and fast. After more than a decade of major investment, the Chinese fleet now is the biggest in the world in terms of hulls.

The People’s Liberation Army Navy boasts
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. That’s 63 more ships than the U.S. Navy operates. Hull numbers aren’t the only metric of naval power, of course. American ships on average are much bigger, more heavily armed and more sophisticated than Chinese ships are, even if the U.S. vessels are less numerous.


Still, “for the last 11 years, China has racked up an impressive ship construction and maintenance effort totaling nearly 211 million man-hours,” Carlson wrote. “This is approximately a five-fold increase over the preceding 11-year period, with significant jumps in 2011, due to the Type 052C/D and Type 056 series production, and in 2015 with the lay-down of the Type 002 aircraft carrier, Shandong.”

But it’s wrong to assume this level of shipbuilding will continue much longer, as some experts have done. Perhaps most notably, The Diplomat’s Rick Joe last year projected that the PLAN by the early 2030s would have four aircraft carriers (up from two today), as many as 20 Type 055 cruisers (up from eight), 40 or so Type 052D/E destroyers (25 today) and perhaps 50 Type 054A/B frigates (31 today).

Don’t count on it, Carlson wrote. “To achieve the force structure proposed by Mr. Joe, China would have to increase the number of man-hours by 93 percent, essentially doubling the resource allocation from 2008 to ‘18.”

“This is a very significant increase, one that would require an equally significant increase in funding—a capital investment that would have to be provided from a Chinese economy that is growing at a far slower rate than earlier periods even as labor costs continue to rise.”

And that’s not counting the maintenance burden this bigger fleet would impose on shipyards and budgets. “The maintenance burden becomes quite substantial beginning in 2028 as many of the Type 052C, 054A and 056 ships come due for their mid-life overhauls.”

“Given the fiscal challenges facing China today and in the near future, this very robust force structure projection is questionable.”

Sober-minded analysts for years have been predicting this slow-down. After all, the same dynamics that could constrain Chinese naval expansion have for decades weighed on the United States’ own fleet-planning.

Despite consensus across American presidential administrations and political parties that the fleet needs to grow, the U.S. Navy has managed to add only around 25 large warships since the fleet bottomed out at around 270 front-line vessels in the early 2000s.

“The economic model that propelled China through three decades of meteoric growth appears unsustainable,” Andrew Erickson, a Naval War College analyst, told the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission a few years ago.

What Erickson
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as China’s “pent-up national potential” could begin expiring as early as 2030, by which point “China will have world’s highest proportion of people over 65,” he predicted. “An aging society with rising expectations, burdened with rates of chronic diseases exacerbated by sedentary lifestyles, will probably divert spending from both military development and the economic growth that sustains it.”

If Carlson and Erickson are right, the combination of an aging Chinese population, slowing economic growth and rising fleet costs could combine to put a cap on the Chinese navy.

That’s not to say the Chinese navy won’t still be one of the powerful in the world by many measures. It’s just not likely to easily overtake the U.S. Navy in the metrics that matter most.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Pretty dumb article if you ask me.

This year, Chinese military has over 2 million applications alone. The huge labor force is still there by 2030 because that is still how big China's reservoir of labor and this won't exhaust until past 2050. By then the GDP per capita would have to match those with the highest in the world.

China's warship building takes a teeny weeny proportion of China's total shipbuilding capacity. Last year, total gross tonnage of China's shipbuilding amounted to 11.8 million. One of every three ships in the world is made in China.

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.

China's military shipbuilding is so insulated from China's demographics because its shipbuilding industry is so huge you can always allocate teeny weeny portions of the shipbuilding capacity into warship building.

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Chinese shipbuilding jobs just for CSG alone, without counting all other shipbuilding companies. This is more than double the number of shipbuilding jobs in the US for a single corporation.

Screenshot 2020-11-13 at 5.51.23 AM.png

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300,000 employed in CSG (combined CSSC + CSIC) is a drop in a huge tank even by 2030, where China is likely to maintain its 1.4 billion population.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
This will be a major first for the Chinese shipbuilding industry to build a world class cruise liner for the first time.

 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
This will be a major first for the Chinese shipbuilding industry to build a world class cruise liner for the first time.


A cruise has traditionally been a place where you can dust off your evening dresses. China should build cruise ships with Chinese style interior design and run Hanfu cruises.
 
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