Chinese shipbuilding industry

Bltizo said:

One can look at India to see a nation, which on paper has had decades of operating small sized aircraft carriers, yet it has taken them far longer than reasonable to build INS Vikrant -- but if they had a foundation of a very competent civilian shipbuilding industry, I guarantee you it would've been far less painful for them.

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...and, turning the argument on its head, - they still made carrier happen because the need was there.
IIRC the shipyard which built the Vikrant never even built warships before.

Gloire_bb said:

...and, turning the argument on its head, - they still made carrier happen because the need was there.
IIRC the shipyard which built the Vikrant never even built warships before.

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That was pretty stupid.

Why on earth would you give an aircraft carrier contract to a shipyard that has never built a warship before?

A few destroyer contracts would give that shipyard some experience and also prove whether they could handle something bigger.

AndrewS said:

That was pretty stupid.

Why on earth would you give an aircraft carrier contract to a shipyard that has never built a warship before?

A few destroyer contracts would give that shipyard some experience and also prove whether they could handle something bigger.

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The answer is corruption. Turkey has given the manufacturing of its tank to a company who had never built a tracked vehicle before. The company is owned by a person who is known for being close to the government. Now, the tank is 5 years late and there are at least 4 years until its deployment. BTW it will be the world's most expensive tank despite having no special features at all. I am sure a similar thing happened with Vikrant too.
Anyway, we should return to the topic.

Gloire_bb said:

...and, turning the argument on its head, - they still made carrier happen because the need was there.
IIRC the shipyard which built the Vikrant never even built warships before.

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But that doesn't turn my argument on its head at all because you're talking about something entirely different.

We were talking about the relationship between having a competent civilian shipbuilding and the ease and ability to better carry out large, complex naval projects like carriers.

I don't think I wrote anywhere that a nation *needed* to have a competent and capable civilian shipbuilding industry to build a carrier.

Instead, what I've been saying is that having a competent and capable civilian shipbuilding industry would make it a less painful process (less delays, less cost overruns, generally more smoother etc).


Obviously one doesn't need a competent and capable civilian shipbuilding industry to build a carrier -- after all the US builds the most capable carriers in the world and in greatest consistent numbers, and the US lacks a meaningful civilian shipbuilding industry compared to the East Asia giants.
However what I am saying is that if the US did have a competent civilian shipbuilding industry, it would almost certainly benefit their overall naval shipbuilding programs (whether it be carriers or other warship types).

Obviously this thread is becoming off topic and talking about some general shipbuilding matters now rather than 052C/D.

I'll move the relevant posts to a separate thread once I have time and I'm at a computer, but I think there are some issues being discussed that are worth hashing out.

Bankrupt shipyard gets bought.

edit

Bltizo said:

This isn't about nationalism but about common sense.

For China, what I'm saying is they would've had no chance to even fit out Varyag to become Liaoning in the first place if they didn't have a competent shipbuilding industry that had emerged in the 2000s.

If they didn't have a competent civilian shipbuilding industry, their efforts to build CV-17 and 003 would have been much more stymied, delayed, inefficient and lackluster, with or without Varyag.

One can look at India to see a nation, which on paper has had decades of operating small sized aircraft carriers, yet it has taken them far longer than reasonable to build INS Vikrant -- but if they had a foundation of a very competent civilian shipbuilding industry, I guarantee you it would've been far less painful for them.

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I think we have deviated from my original point

My point was that commercial ship building is not necessarily a requirement for warship building

And that despite the UK not having any commercial shipbuilding it can still build aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines to the worlds highest standards because of its gene pool of knowledge and decades of experience

Japan, South Korea and China Account for building over 80% of the commercial shipbuilding trade in the world

none launched 2 x 65,000 Tons Carriers in 5 years like the UK did and all of them do have a carrier requirement

Look at the poor Russians, JSC one of the largest builders in the world couldn’t even manage a LHD had to buy from France, why ? Because they simply can’t build one

Of course commercial shipbuilding does overlap with warship construction

but it is not a pre-request

asif iqbal said:

I think we have deviated from my original point

My point was that commercial ship building is not necessarily a requirement for warship building

And that despite the UK not having any commercial shipbuilding it can still build aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines to the worlds highest standards because of its gene pool of knowledge and decades of experience

Japan, South Korea and China Account for building over 80% of the commercial shipbuilding trade in the world

none launched 2 x 65,000 Tons Carriers in 5 years like the UK did and all of them do have a carrier requirement

Look at the poor Russians, JSC one of the largest builders in the world couldn’t even manage a LHD had to buy from France, why ? Because they simply can’t build one

Of course commercial shipbuilding does overlap with warship construction

but it is not a pre-request

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JSC is not one of the largest builders in the world by far and neither does it produce the largest commercial ships.



Japan and Korea does not have a carrier equirement. In fact Japan is forbidden by its constitution to build one. China has rebuilt a carrier husk, built a new carrier, and is currently constructing a carrier with catapults. The QE is still a STOL carrier.

As for the highest standards I don't know. Defects on the Type 45 doesn't suggest this and there has been reports on the QE as well.

Tam said:

As for the highest standards I don't know. Defects on the Type 45 doesn't suggest this and there has been reports on the QE as well.

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yes while both are sailing around the globe

defects are found they are fixed and they move on, thats how it works no big issue