Chinese semiconductor industry


Xsizor

Captain
Registered Member
SK/Japan/Taiwan and to certain extent China demographics will not get better and they may not attract people from other cultures.
US still attracts best of Asia. and EU attracts best of nearby countries. so there will be shortage of skilled manpower if Asia tried to build entire supply chains.

Throw enough money and you'll make a Japanese speak Mandarin. Throw enough money and you'll convince an Indian to learn Mandarin.

Past pages in this thread had posts about how China was recruiting talent from Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and elsewhere.
And China's own vast pools of freshly minted students are going to help a lot. Money is King.
 

xypher

Junior Member
Registered Member
SK/Japan/Taiwan and to certain extent China demographics will not get better and they may not attract people from other cultures.
US still attracts best of Asia. and EU attracts best of nearby countries. so there will be shortage of skilled manpower if Asia tried to build entire supply chains.

China already attracts skilled people from other countries. There are a lot of Taiwanese semiconductor experts, Japanese engineers, etc. working in China. The brain drain from Asia to the West is slowly diminishing - it was already pretty small for developed countries like Japan or South Korea, and it is getting smaller for China as more people opt to go back and work in China rather than stay in the US, i.e.
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.
 

pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
80% return home does not tell. whether they are bottom 80% or top 80%. US can make them instantly mulitmillion dollar if they contribute. you just need few percentage of talented in STEM.
US and EU area also throwing money at it. TSMC and Samsung in addition to Intel will built new Fabs in US. They can utlilize labor from Latin American to do the construction. put software develpers from India. this most efficient distribution of work.
 

dfrtyhgj

Junior Member
Registered Member
Answers to questions several pages back:

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One of the most critical lessons we should learn is that we should never decouple from the world. We can make the same conclusion when looking back at the history of China as the empire was strong during Tang and Song dynasties but gradually went backward after the isolationist policies implemented by Ming and Qing dynasties.

So that's why China today has to stress the "new type of whole-nation system" which will lead to China's development in the international context, rather than "innovation behind closed doors" of the Soviet Union. Why can't the US, from the era of Trump to Biden, decouple from China despite their strong desire to? The answer is that as China has integrated itself with the whole world, it's almost impossible to decouple with China even if those with anti-Chinese sentiment and advocating a new cold war strive to.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
80% return home does not tell. whether they are bottom 80% or top 80%. US can make them instantly mulitmillion dollar if they contribute. you just need few percentage of talented in STEM.
US and EU area also throwing money at it. TSMC and Samsung in addition to Intel will built new Fabs in US. They can utlilize labor from Latin American to do the construction. put software develpers from India. this most efficient distribution of work.
They should do that I pray and suffer the fate of Intel hiring Chief Engineer of Indian extraction
 

foxmulder

Junior Member
SK/Japan/Taiwan and to certain extent China demographics will not get better and they may not attract people from other cultures.
US still attracts best of Asia. and EU attracts best of nearby countries. so there will be shortage of skilled manpower if Asia tried to build entire supply chains.


US does not attract the best of China at all anymore. A lot changed due to 2008 and covid.
 

Xsizor

Captain
Registered Member
80% return home does not tell. whether they are bottom 80% or top 80%. US can make them instantly mulitmillion dollar if they contribute. you just need few percentage of talented in STEM.
US and EU area also throwing money at it. TSMC and Samsung in addition to Intel will built new Fabs in US. They can utlilize labor from Latin American to do the construction. put software develpers from India. this most efficient distribution of work.
If what you insist is indeed at play and US is very efficient in this then i'm afraid China has no hope. Maybe China should give up ?
Whether US or EU is throwing money at something shouldn't be a concern because this isn't a race (if it was, then China has lost it). It is China's quest for independence from sanctions and foreign interference in its technology development.
 

pmc

Junior Member
Registered Member
i am only pointing out that Asia will not be able to attract outside talent like US/EU is attracting. Even Canada is attracting huge numbers. let alone free education Germany.
Indian in software does not mean making them run the hardware business.
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DOCTRINE OF THE NEW GERMAN ERA​

Bilateral and regional relations​

The transatlantic partnership and friendship with the United States are a central pillar of our international action.
 

foxmulder

Junior Member
Banning/sanctioning companies is in effect a more gradual process of closing the country

What if that sanctioned company made an advancement and China fell behind because it stopped doing business with it?
That's why China doesn't want to ban these companies.

Even in semiconductors, you haven't seen China banning ASML or even banning old ASML IC equipment where there is domestic competition

The US is actually following this "ban" route but it doesn't have any immediate effects to them due to their large size and advantages from the past. However with each sanction, and as China becomes more innovative, the US risks falling behind in sectors where they have banned advanced Chinese companies

I really think you do not understand what I wrote. And/or taking what I said to an extreme. Closing the country is just misunderstanding on your part. It is far from what I am suggesting. China has become strong because it is doing business with everyone.

Now back to what I am saying: When a country bans a Chinese company to intentionally hurt China economically and more importantly to inhibit its technological growth, China has to respond or it will look weak and invite for more of the similar actions. This is *exactly* what happened with Huawei ban. With US orders, New Zealand become the first country to ban Huawei and China did a big nothing which followed by Australia. Again nothing! Then the banning wave went to EU. Many countries were actually on the fence and did not want to ban Huawei at first but then US pressured them. They realized China is doing nothing when they ban Huawei but US would do smt if they were not to ban so they went ahead with the logical choice and banned Huawei (maybe not an officially ban but on the ground Huawei is now banned in France and even in Germany and many other countries). Huawei's handset business died. Other departments are very hard hit, too.

If Chine were to respond to New Zealand and went with a tit for tat respond many countries which were on the fence would probably not banned Huawei. China could have targeted with responses with minimal effect to itself and maximum pain to opposition. Anyhow...

Now, more worryingly, Huawei become just one but many companies banned by USA. These bans will probably expand and taken up by other countries, too.

As I said China is incredibly docile. It is almost mind boggling to me.
 

Michaelsinodef

Junior Member
Registered Member
Now back to what I am saying: When a country bans a Chinese company to intentionally hurt China economically and more importantly to inhibit its technological growth, China has to respond or it will look weak and invite for more of the similar actions. This is *exactly* what happened with Huawei ban. With US orders, New Zealand become the first country to ban Huawei and China did a big nothing which followed by Australia. Again nothing! Then the banning wave went to EU. Many countries were actually on the fence and did not want to ban Huawei at first but then US pressured them. They realized China is doing nothing when they ban Huawei but US would do smt if they were not to ban so they went ahead with the logical choice and banned Huawei (maybe not an officially ban but on the ground Huawei is now banned in France and even in Germany and many other countries). Huawei's handset business died. Other departments are very hard hit, too.
5G equipment buying changed from chinese + foreign companies to only chinese companies. Pretty sure that is part of a response to other countries banning Huawei 5G.
 

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