Chinese semiconductor industry

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horse

Major
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Just going off topic for one post in this thread, but can we see how this is all connected and inter-related?

First, a history lesson review. Imperialism was about politics, exerting control over the colonies. The purpose was not control for control sake, it was for the money, the extraction or resources and exploitation of the people. It was always about the money. That is why the Queen of England is one of the richest person around. The British Empire ripped off the colonies. That is why some love the Queen, the worship of money. Just like how Bill Gates is worshiped. But wait, one may object and say Bill Gates is evil and hated! That is very true too, for the same reason that is why the Queen Lizzie is hated.

The US government war against Huawei, is all about the money, just like it always was.

It is about the money, 5G network gear, the phones, the software, the Internet of Things, the O/S for the IoT, and of course the topic of this thread the semiconductor. But it starts with the money, then the rest all connects.

Let's face it, the US government went after everything about Huawei. They wanted the network gear banned, then they banned the software ie Google Android, then a chip ban that affected the phones, and finally a board semiconductor equipment ban applied to the entire system. All in an attempt to prevent Huawei from making the money, so that the American corporation can make that money.

That is clear enough.

But wait, it gets more interesting, because of what happens next, or what some people in the political world call 2nd order effects or 3rd order effects. To me, it just basic stuff we learned in school and applied in the working world.

Briefly, my guess would be the 2nd order effects, or what logically happens next, is that costs will be lower for the Chinese company and consumers. Appliances are made in China. If somebody wants a different O/S other than Harmony O/S put into the purchase order, then that should cost more. Hence, the Chinese consumer gets a better value for their buck than someone else who pays more. Therefore, with more money due to these savings, the Chinese consumer benefits. (Another way to say that is efficiency gains will benefit the consumer, blah blah bah). This has important implications for productivity and long term competitiveness, (in other words, more blah, blah, blah).

The 3rd order effects we are already seeing. The foreign corporations are rushing into China even more. They see what is going on, and they got to be there, despite the objections of their political class. Since the American and European company got to be there, there in China, that political slap in the face will sting. :p

This semiconductor fight, is a small part of the larger fight.

That is why there is no urgency anymore. At first, there was a lot of urgency on the Chinese side, OMG! Ai Yah! We need to build our semiconductor industry. Then we find out, "Oh, we kind of already well advanced along that road, just a matter of time now," the urgency kind of left the balloon.

That is why there is real desperation, especially with the Americans. They just had another G7 meeting again, and it was American lead and all about China, China, Chyna, Chyyna!!!

:D :p :oops: :)
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The 3rd order effects we are already seeing. The foreign corporations are rushing into China even more. They see what is going on, and they got to be there, despite the objections of their political class. Since the American and European company got to be there, there in China, that political slap in the face will sting. :p


:D :p :oops: :)

If American and European companies leave China, what would happen?

Chinese competitors will swoop in. Then those Chinese companies will use the Chinese market as a base for global expansion into America, Europe and the rest of the world.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
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If American and European companies leave China, what would happen?

Chinese competitors will swoop in. Then those Chinese companies will use the Chinese market as a base for global expansion into America, Europe and the rest of the world.
This they will operate in a super competitive domestic market, then they can branch out to Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia those are huge markets that are somewhat developed.

Right now we have the UEFA Euro 2021 tournament here in the EU and there are more Chinese sponsors then European sponsors it was the first thing me and my friends noticed.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Right now we have the UEFA Euro 2021 tournament here in the EU and there are more Chinese sponsors then European sponsors it was the first thing me and my friends noticed.
Kinda unrelated but I have to get it out, Chinese Gov shafted the Italian football team, Inter

Based Conte had to leave as the coach from the team due to the Chinese Gov restricting Inter's Chinese owner from pouring money into a foreign team

Still salty...

Ok back to topic now :)
 
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jfcarli

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US government forbid Huawei from using Android. I think it is about time the Chinese government start exercising what it has been threatening for a number of years, i.e., include Google in the list of unreliable entities and forbid the use of Android in the whole of the Chinese territory.

US will not be able to punish individual companies, like Xiaomi, because it is an order from the Chinese government.

Maybe better still, invite all Chinese cell phone manufacturers for a meeting (like Biden did with the chip manufacturers) and "suggest" to the cell manufacturers to adopt Harmony OS (at least domestically for the time being).

I would also recommend that the Chinese government also calls a meeting among all manufacturers of products that might benefit form an operating systen for IoT, and also "suggest" they use Harmony OS.

Don't think the US can complain about forbidding Android in China.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
ASML is just systems integrator like Lenovo.... and TSMC is basically a VAR
That's a very simplistic way to put it.

As far as I've understood, ASML isn't just a systems integrator ( don't they have a myriad of patents regarding creation of Extreme UV using tin droplets with absurd rate of fire whatever wizardry?) Sure ASML procures subsystems from other sources like zeiss but so do Airbus and Boeing.

TSMCs core strength is the human resource. They also have patent generation but I guess it'd be concentrated around the processes.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Any news on SMEE 28nm??? For me, the most successful Semicon company in China are CXMT AND YMTC. They produce DRAM and SSD at the same level as Micron, kioxia, and Sk Hynix at a shorter time.
They produce them with what equipments?
Chinese equipments? I don't think so. Considerable way to go for both CXMT and YMTC. But they are very significant and important companies.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
That's a very simplistic way to put it.

As far as I've understood, ASML isn't just a systems integrator ( don't they have a myriad of patents regarding creation of Extreme UV using tin droplets with absurd rate of fire whatever wizardry?) Sure ASML procures subsystems from other sources like zeiss but so do Airbus and Boeing.

TSMCs core strength is the human resource. They also have patent generation but I guess it'd be concentrated around the processes.
ASML’s patents for generating EUV photons was acquired through their acquisition of Cymer.

On a more general note, we shouldn’t be knocking systems integration. It can be a very difficult task that requires fitting together competences from multiple fields. You’re not “just” putting a bunch of parts together. You have to, based on your understanding of the physics and engineering, constantly revise and modify how the components work together in order to arrive at the desired performance capabilities.
 
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