Chinese semiconductor industry


PiSigma

"the engineer"
Huawei's Harmony OS cannot compete head on with Google's Android or iOS. It will end up like Samsung's Tizen or Window's mobile. Huawei is mainly positioning Harmony OS in the IoT, smart home appliances, EV autonomous driving, industrial automation with robotics. With sufficient Chinese manufacturers adopting Harmony OS in their products, soon the Chinese market will be flooded with Harmony OS enable devices which would eventually force all smartphones sold in China to adopt Harmony OS so that the phones can seamlessly interact with the smart devices. Likely Apple will be forced to adopt Harmony OS in the Chinese market in order to survive. With so many Chinese smart devices exported overseas, the installed base for Harmony OS will increase further. Google's Android would finally meet a worthy competitor.
This is Mao's strategy, take over the country side first then attack the cities. The smart home, car, appliances are the country side. The cell phone is the city. Once everything needs harmony OS, the phone must convert, or else Huawei will take a monopoly.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
This is Mao's strategy, take over the country side first then attack the cities. The smart home, car, appliances are the country side. The cell phone is the city. Once everything needs harmony OS, the phone must convert, or else Huawei will take a monopoly.
Agreed.

iOS and Android are already deeply entrenched in the mobile space.

So Huawei, wisely, decided instead of attacking them head on on their advantageous position, it would first start taking over the new industies which are wildly growing lately, IoT (IoE for Huawei).

After 2-3 years with more 5G applications coming up on the IoT space and more advances with AI, the Huawei would dominate this huge industry and then start leveraging this user base of its HarmonyOS to finally attack the mobile space.

IMO in 2-3 years we can draw some preliminary conclusion on how successful HarmonyOS has become.

This is a winning strategy for Huawei
 

Annihilation98

New Member
Registered Member

From INEWS ( I Think this publication is from the Mainland China)


The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news​

2021/06/10 21:45:20

The lithography machine and 7nm chip suddenly disappeared!
In the call for domestic substitution, the frequency of "lithography machine" and "SMIC" should be very high. One is the essential equipment for core making, and the other is the fab with high hopes, but both are facing a difficult dilemma. Imported lithography machines are restricted by the United States, while domestic lithography machines are now known to be 90nm. The 28nm lithography machine that has been talking for a long time passed on and there was no more text. On the other hand, SMIC has no news about the risk of trial production of 7nm this month after chasing the 14nm platform of Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

After obtaining the "mature process" license, SMIC began to expand its 28nm production capacity in Shenzhen, and in the announced plan for this year, it has invested 28.09 billion yuan, of which a large proportion is in mature technology, is 7nm stop Yet?

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

Domestic semiconductor equipment and SMIC's 7nm​

Take a production line of SMIC as an example. 90% of the equipment is imported, and less than 10% of the domestic equipment. From this we can see the degree of our dependence on the outside world.
Although SMIC now to get the license, and the Netherlands also signed a large single, looking lithography machine seems to be in place, but to know that even the smooth development of lithography into the core of the delivery room, but also a long way, and Lao Mei has not fully let go of SMIC. An insider revealed that even if it is a small part, the United States is not necessarily exported to China, let alone semiconductor equipment such as lithography machines?

What about domestic substitutes? As we mentioned earlier, the known domestic lithography machine is now 90nm, but SMIC has mass-produced 14nm and started to march towards 7nm, which is obviously not enough. Shanghai Microelectronics, which has been rumored before, may deliver a 28nm domestic lithography machine this year, but it seems that there is no more.
Previous official posts about 28nm lithography machines have also been deleted. However, judging from the authoritative articles published last year by the Jiangsu Provincial Development Zone Association and Founder Securities, the words "supporting" and "acceptance" indicate that the domestic 28nm lithography machine seems to be in progress.
On the SMIC side, Liang Mengsong said at the end of last year that it would risk trial production of 7nm in April this year. It is now in the middle, but no news has been seen. Some analysts pointed out that whether it is Shanghai Microelectronics or SMIC, or because of the layers of attack by the United States, they have begun to act low-key and put away their edge, but things are still going on as usual.
The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news


The inevitable rise of domestic production​

The current semiconductor market is changing. For example, the European Union and Japan have begun to enter the 2nm field, and By D has invited more than a dozen companies to hold a meeting. In addition to saying that the United States will increase investment in semiconductors, it is to prevent China's transcendence.
Our foundation is relatively weak, but we are already on the way.
Some people say that even if the 28nm lithography machine is delivered, SMIC's 7nm has been successfully trial-produced, but this is still incomparable with the advanced 5nm.
It's such a thing, but it cannot be said so. According to the previous research report released by IC Insights, it shows that even 28nm will occupy a large market. The chief designer of Loongson also said that in addition to mobile phones and other fields that have special requirements for chips, many applications can be used 14/ 28nm is resolved.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

Therefore, there is no need to blindly catch up with advanced technology. We are looking forward to overtaking in corners, but we can't overturn in corners, right?
Just like Academician Wu Hanming said, the domestic market is huge, but the production capacity is still 8 times behind SMIC. We should keep up with the advanced technology while stabilizing the production capacity and the market.
After all, if you want to achieve the goal of 70% chip self-sufficiency by 2025, not only a company can do it, nor does it mean that it can succeed in a certain link, but to establish its own industrial chain and form an ecology. Can go more lasting.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

In short, both the lithography machine and SMIC's 7nm are on the road. We may still have a certain gap with the advanced technology, but we have been on the road. No one knows what will happen to semiconductors in the future, but what can be seen is that many global production lines are shifting to China, and we are seizing this opportunity!
This means that China should forget about 7nm completely. Just do 12nm or even 10nm. That just enough to survive domestically. No need to focus on the international market, just focus inside the country.
 

Annihilation98

New Member
Registered Member
Huawei's Harmony OS cannot compete head on with Google's Android or iOS. It will end up like Samsung's Tizen or Window's mobile. Huawei is mainly positioning Harmony OS in the IoT, smart home appliances, EV autonomous driving, industrial automation with robotics. With sufficient Chinese manufacturers adopting Harmony OS in their products, soon the Chinese market will be flooded with Harmony OS enable devices which would eventually force all smartphones sold in China to adopt Harmony OS so that the phones can seamlessly interact with the smart devices. Likely Apple will be forced to adopt Harmony OS in the Chinese market in order to survive. With so many Chinese smart devices exported overseas, the installed base for Harmony OS will increase further. Google's Android would finally meet a worthy competitor.
Huawei should focus on domestic, not international. Harmony os should apply to all Chinese smartphone company including Xiaomi and BBK electronic for the domestic market. For international, they still can sell using android. Forget about defeating google, it never works. Google supremacy is too great. Forget about competition with the USA, just think about how to survive. That is the most important thing.
 
Last edited:

james smith esq

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei's Harmony OS cannot compete head on with Google's Android or iOS. It will end up like Samsung's Tizen or Window's mobile. Huawei is mainly positioning Harmony OS in the IoT, smart home appliances, EV autonomous driving, industrial automation with robotics. With sufficient Chinese manufacturers adopting Harmony OS in their products, soon the Chinese market will be flooded with Harmony OS enable devices which would eventually force all smartphones sold in China to adopt Harmony OS so that the phones can seamlessly interact with the smart devices. Likely Apple will be forced to adopt Harmony OS in the Chinese market in order to survive. With so many Chinese smart devices exported overseas, the installed base for Harmony OS will increase further. Google's Android would finally meet a worthy competitor.
This is precisely how China’s rise will occur, in all domains. Aligning the Chinese consumer market with Chinese commercial production will strengthen Chinese market share to the point of market domination.
As I said in another thread:
“Domestically, IMO, the most important factor in China’s rise will be the development of a solid Chinese middle-class that numbers -350 million and which supports a solid consumer class twice this size. Upon achieving this, China will become not only the world’s primary source of supply, but also its primary source of demand. This will result in Chinese perspectives, tastes, opinions, preferences, and expressions exerting similar influence on global perceptions to that which Americans have since the end of WWII. I would hope (and expect) to see this occur before the termination of my probable life-expectancy in 2042.”
 

bettydice

New Member
Registered Member
Huawei should focus on domestic, not international. Harmony os should apply to all Chinese smartphone company including Xiaomi and BBK electronic for the domestic market. For international, they still can sell using android. Forget about defeating google, it never works. Google supremacy is too great. Forget about competition with the USA, just think about how to survive. That is the most important thing.
HUAWEI no longer develops Android-based UI. Doing so would be waste of their/developers' resources, and creates fragmentation between Chinese and rest of the world ecosystem. They should concentrate on HarmonyOS now.
 

horse

Senior Member
Registered Member
Huawei's Harmony OS cannot compete head on with Google's Android or iOS. It will end up like Samsung's Tizen or Window's mobile. Huawei is mainly positioning Harmony OS in the IoT, smart home appliances, EV autonomous driving, industrial automation with robotics. With sufficient Chinese manufacturers adopting Harmony OS in their products, soon the Chinese market will be flooded with Harmony OS enable devices which would eventually force all smartphones sold in China to adopt Harmony OS so that the phones can seamlessly interact with the smart devices. Likely Apple will be forced to adopt Harmony OS in the Chinese market in order to survive. With so many Chinese smart devices exported overseas, the installed base for Harmony OS will increase further. Google's Android would finally meet a worthy competitor.

Exactly.

What enables all of that, again is the 5G standalone network.

We are just repeating ourselves, in this technological and economic/business story, but this is important enough that it should be repeated again and again.

It is all about first mover advantage.

One of the most famous stories of first mover advantage is no other than everyone's favourite geek, Bill Gates. What he had, he had this product called MS-Dos. And that was piece of crap. But he rushed first into the market, and that piece of crap was the only thing on the market. After MS-Dos, Bill Gates parlayed that into bigger and better things. Bill Gates got the jump on everyone else, then ran away. At one point, they were seriously considering breaking up Micro$oft because it was a monopoly. But the Clintons knew better, what was better for America.


With Harmony O/S geared to the IoT, this O/S will integrate all devices, creating a different reality in networking and who knows what else. All based on the standalone 5G network.

That is the problem for the Americans.
1) they currently have nothing comparable to Harmony O/S
2) they do not even have 5G standalone networks in scale, and no completion date that we know of

That is why the Americans went after a Chinese company that hard.

This tech decoupling is real. It will also develop in some ways that people do not expect.

(Anyone has ever seen a folding cell phone like the X model from Huawei? Very few people in this world has. Yet, it is sold in some country somewhere.)

:D
 

daifo

Junior Member
Registered Member

From INEWS ( I Think this publication is from the Mainland China)


The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news​

2021/06/10 21:45:20

The lithography machine and 7nm chip suddenly disappeared!
In the call for domestic substitution, the frequency of "lithography machine" and "SMIC" should be very high. One is the essential equipment for core making, and the other is the fab with high hopes, but both are facing a difficult dilemma. Imported lithography machines are restricted by the United States, while domestic lithography machines are now known to be 90nm. The 28nm lithography machine that has been talking for a long time passed on and there was no more text. On the other hand, SMIC has no news about the risk of trial production of 7nm this month after chasing the 14nm platform of Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

After obtaining the "mature process" license, SMIC began to expand its 28nm production capacity in Shenzhen, and in the announced plan for this year, it has invested 28.09 billion yuan, of which a large proportion is in mature technology, is 7nm stop Yet?

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

Domestic semiconductor equipment and SMIC's 7nm​

Take a production line of SMIC as an example. 90% of the equipment is imported, and less than 10% of the domestic equipment. From this we can see the degree of our dependence on the outside world.
Although SMIC now to get the license, and the Netherlands also signed a large single, looking lithography machine seems to be in place, but to know that even the smooth development of lithography into the core of the delivery room, but also a long way, and Lao Mei has not fully let go of SMIC. An insider revealed that even if it is a small part, the United States is not necessarily exported to China, let alone semiconductor equipment such as lithography machines?

What about domestic substitutes? As we mentioned earlier, the known domestic lithography machine is now 90nm, but SMIC has mass-produced 14nm and started to march towards 7nm, which is obviously not enough. Shanghai Microelectronics, which has been rumored before, may deliver a 28nm domestic lithography machine this year, but it seems that there is no more.
Previous official posts about 28nm lithography machines have also been deleted. However, judging from the authoritative articles published last year by the Jiangsu Provincial Development Zone Association and Founder Securities, the words "supporting" and "acceptance" indicate that the domestic 28nm lithography machine seems to be in progress.
On the SMIC side, Liang Mengsong said at the end of last year that it would risk trial production of 7nm in April this year. It is now in the middle, but no news has been seen. Some analysts pointed out that whether it is Shanghai Microelectronics or SMIC, or because of the layers of attack by the United States, they have begun to act low-key and put away their edge, but things are still going on as usual.
The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news


The inevitable rise of domestic production​

The current semiconductor market is changing. For example, the European Union and Japan have begun to enter the 2nm field, and By D has invited more than a dozen companies to hold a meeting. In addition to saying that the United States will increase investment in semiconductors, it is to prevent China's transcendence.
Our foundation is relatively weak, but we are already on the way.
Some people say that even if the 28nm lithography machine is delivered, SMIC's 7nm has been successfully trial-produced, but this is still incomparable with the advanced 5nm.
It's such a thing, but it cannot be said so. According to the previous research report released by IC Insights, it shows that even 28nm will occupy a large market. The chief designer of Loongson also said that in addition to mobile phones and other fields that have special requirements for chips, many applications can be used 14/ 28nm is resolved.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

Therefore, there is no need to blindly catch up with advanced technology. We are looking forward to overtaking in corners, but we can't overturn in corners, right?
Just like Academician Wu Hanming said, the domestic market is huge, but the production capacity is still 8 times behind SMIC. We should keep up with the advanced technology while stabilizing the production capacity and the market.
After all, if you want to achieve the goal of 70% chip self-sufficiency by 2025, not only a company can do it, nor does it mean that it can succeed in a certain link, but to establish its own industrial chain and form an ecology. Can go more lasting.

The domestic 28nm lithography machine, the 7nm SMIC trial production in April, suddenly no news

In short, both the lithography machine and SMIC's 7nm are on the road. We may still have a certain gap with the advanced technology, but we have been on the road. No one knows what will happen to semiconductors in the future, but what can be seen is that many global production lines are shifting to China, and we are seizing this opportunity!

This is an important line that is sometime lost when people are talking about 7nm! , 5nm!!, 2nm!!!:

"The chief designer of Loongson also said that in addition to mobile phones and other fields that have special requirements for chips, many applications can be used 14/ 28nm is resolved."

I looked at my daily gear and both "professional" class intel notebooks I have bought the past 5 years are at 14nm.
My phone is at 28nm and is good enough for the average user like map, banking, web surfing, light gaming

Besides lithography though, is actual chip design. Everything i have research on kupeng, loongson , zhaoxin, and alibaba risc-v boards is that they are pretty weak :(
 

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