Chinese semiconductor industry

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krautmeister

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The EDA situation may be similar to semiconductor lithography: TSMC is now ahead of China's fabs, but how much further can the Taiwanese firm go? Perhaps to 3 nm, maybe to 2 nm, and then what? They will likely be stuck, and that would allow the Chinese fabs to catch up.
The power consumption and performance difference between 7nm and 2nm is basically not worth it due to the increased design cost, except in the case of smartphones. One promising field is the use of graphene wafers which has potential performance attributes supposedly up to 10 times higher than silicon on the same process. I don't know how much of that is hype, but it's something China should be doing more research on during the catch up stage.
 

gelgoog

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People have been proposing replacements for silicon since about the time they started using silicon.
At one time supercomputers used GaA for example but that was eventually relegated to niche applications.
Not saying that graphene won't have it's uses but don't count on it replacing silicon when there is a roadmap for silicon for the next decade at least.

IBM is basically showing here something that will only show up in consumer products in like two process generations i.e. in four year times or more. Don't assume silicon is dead yet.
 

krautmeister

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The US thinks they are slow boiling a frog, but really they are strengthening the Chinese semi tools market.
Imo, the primary reason for this slowly boiling frog strategy of the US is their belief that China cannot possibly ever fully catch up on their own. This is borne from the ideological echo chamber of fake China "experts" guiding American foreign policy think tanks. These clueless academics are funded by their biased monied class who choose/use them to push their preconceived plans within a virtuous cycle of BS.
 

gelgoog

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Imo, the primary reason for this slowly boiling frog strategy of the US is their belief that China cannot possibly ever fully catch up on their own. This is borne from the ideological echo chamber of fake China "experts" guiding American foreign policy think tanks. These clueless academics are funded by their biased monied class who choose/use them to push their preconceived plans within a virtuous cycle of BS.

They are retarded. If the Japanese can do it with a much smaller economy, why can't China?
Japan has managed to produce most if not all of the semi fab tools hardware in use.
The only thing they do not have is basically an EUV litho tool, but they have the light source.
 

krautmeister

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They are retarded. If the Japanese can do it with a much smaller economy, why can't China?
Japan has managed to produce most if not all of the semi fab tools hardware in use.
The only thing they do not have is basically an EUV litho tool, but they have the light source.
Japan and all the other OECD countries have no technology restrictions enforced upon them. ASML would be a nothing burger without its international collaborations. I think the belief is that no single individual country can do everything and if they could do everything, they will never be the best at anything.
 

gelgoog

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Japan and all the other OECD countries have no technology restrictions enforced upon them. ASML would be a nothing burger without its international collaborations. I think the belief is that no single individual country can do everything and if they could do everything, they will never be the best at anything.

Japan did not piggy back into US corporate IP like ASML did. ASML acquired US companies to grow share, the Japanese didn't.
 

krautmeister

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krautmeister said:
lithography like nanoimprint, laser and electron beam lithography
Are they also used in Chip fabs and/or have other uses ?
Fyi, somebody here just posted news of IBM recently announcing the first 2nm semiconductor via nanoimprint lithographic technology with 50 billion transistors. Production volumes are probably terrible but the fact they can fab this at the quantum tunneling limit is impressive.

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krautmeister

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Fyi, somebody here just posted news of IBM recently announcing the first 2nm semiconductor via nanoimprint lithographic technology with 50 billion transistors. Production volumes are probably terrible but the fact they can fab this at the quantum tunneling limit is impressive.

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Whoops, actually just read the article, it's "nanosheet" tech, used to make <=3nm transistors. LOL
 

nlalyst

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Imo, the primary reason for this slowly boiling frog strategy of the US is their belief that China cannot possibly ever fully catch up on their own. This is borne from the ideological echo chamber of fake China "experts" guiding American foreign policy think tanks. These clueless academics are funded by their biased monied class who choose/use them to push their preconceived plans within a virtuous cycle of BS.
Sorry, but when I look at the evidence I see a rather different picture. There were various kinds of sanctions/limitation on the type of equipment China can acquire since the 90s. China had the incentive to catch up for over 20 years now.

Yet, SMIC was way more competitive with foreign companies 20 years ago than it is today.
 
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