Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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Interesting because N+1 is the equipment strategy of Wanye Enterprise, Is interesting too that Jiaxin was founded by an ex SMIC CEO.

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It makes sense for them to concentrate on that level for now. N+1 (aka 7 nm by techInsight) is likely the level that SMIC can get the best combination of yield and leading edge for the next 2 years. I think they can mass produce N+2, but it will be at lower yield and probably much higher cost.

Took at look at that article
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It seems to me that no one is mentioning the interesting part about how Fujian Jinhua is suddenly back to life because it's getting Huawei orders. That means it must have procured the tools that it needs to produce DRAM for a while now and have already tested them out and started production. IIRC, it takes months to start production after all the tools of a production line moves into place. So, all of along the real problem facing them was not even lack of tools, but lack of clients after they got fully blacklisted.

The article itself also never bothered asking the question of where its suppliers are. Clearly if it wants to double production, it needs new tools. Who are these mysterious non-American suppliers? Would ASML sell to Fujian Jinhua with its reputation? Probably not. Maybe Nikon or Canon are willing to? My guess is that SMEE is possible here at least. Not sure what level of DRAM they are producing. Maybe not as advanced as CXMT. But if Jinhua can get every tool from non-American supplier to make DRAM, then I think maybe CXMT can get all the tools they need for their expansion? Maybe CXMT/YMTC won't be slowed down that much. What do you think @PopularScience ?

They also said this, but we know from Q3 earnings call that the bigger issue facing SMIC is US customers not wanting to continue business with them rather than not being able to purchase more Ammerican tools. These departures don't seem to be hurting them that much.
The American equipment makers also asked their staff to leave advanced plants owned by Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co, China's biggest contract chipmaker, which serves many local and international chip developers, according to people familiar with the matter.

This can't be real. SMIC alone accounts for over 5% of global chip sales and they want to tell us that Chinese companies only account for 6.6% of their domestic market. That seems like complete nonsense.
Chips made by Chinese companies in China made up just 6.6% of the total domestic market in 2021, IC Insights data shows.

So, this non-A lines are just referring to its current Beijing fab that is not designed to produce any advanced chips and the new SMIC Capital JV that is also only doing 28nm+ process. So yes, I'm sure the best they can do is 28nm at these lines. The lines were never meant to do better than that!
nicknamed "Non-A lines" at its factory in Beijing, and in another newly built plant in Tongzhou, southeast of Beijing

Again, SMIC is being extremely secretive about its SN1/SN2 plans. It's acting like expansions here aren't even happening despite ramped up purchases of ASML scanners that are clearly geared for SMSC JV. Recently, they changed the description of their business to 0.35微米到FinFET from 0.35 微米到 14 纳米. If they can't get all the ASML scanners they need, then their advanced node production will likely be slowed down. But I really don't think American tools are the limiting factor here. Will be interesting when we get the full years report and compare the revenue from SMSC JV vs the mid year report. If we see revenue more than double, then we know they are moving to more advanced nodes with higher production level.
 

ansy1968

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Beijing New FAB is 28nm. Just started trial production.
Fully domesticated line, start from 28nm this year, then 14nm next year maybe a BIG maybe 7nm line in 2024. ;) SMIC is full of promises and confidence in its future while back at TSMC the future seems a little cloudy, last year is their full Zenith maybe in ten years time it will be part of Intel as one of its subsidiary.

@tphuang Sir seems like SMIC strategy of dual approach is working especially with a little help from Uncle Sam. ;)

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2 days ago — TSMC's overall fab capacity utilization rate is estimated to fall to 80% in the first half of 2023, with the utilization for 7/6 nm process ...



TSMC capacity utilization fall to widen in 1H23​

Monica Chen, Hsinchu; Willis Ke, DIGITIMES AsiaMonday 28 November 2022
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1_b.jpg

Credit: DIGITIMES Asia

TSMC's overall fab capacity utilization rate is estimated to fall to 80% in the first half of 2023, with the utilization for 7/6 nm process capacity to see a widening fall, 5/4nm capacity utilization to decline month by month starting next January while...
 
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PopularScience

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Took at look at that article
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It seems to me that no one is mentioning the interesting part about how Fujian Jinhua is suddenly back to life because it's getting Huawei orders. That means it must have procured the tools that it needs to produce DRAM for a while now and have already tested them out and started production. IIRC, it takes months to start production after all the tools of a production line moves into place. So, all of along the real problem facing them was not even lack of tools, but lack of clients after they got fully blacklisted.

The article itself also never bothered asking the question of where its suppliers are. Clearly if it wants to double production, it needs new tools. Who are these mysterious non-American suppliers? Would ASML sell to Fujian Jinhua with its reputation? Probably not. Maybe Nikon or Canon are willing to? My guess is that SMEE is possible here at least. Not sure what level of DRAM they are producing. Maybe not as advanced as CXMT. But if Jinhua can get every tool from non-American supplier to make DRAM, then I think maybe CXMT can get all the tools they need for their expansion? Maybe CXMT/YMTC won't be slowed down that much. What do you think @PopularScience ?
Don't think they can slow down that much for 17nm dram. The bottleneck is equipment for more advanced dram like below 17nm dram.
 

BoraTas

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View attachment 102658

TSMC Will Reportedly Charge $20,000 Per 3nm Wafer​


GPUs and SoCs to get more expensive

TSMC will reportedly hike the pricing of wafers processed using its leading edge N3 (3nm-class) process technology by 25% compared to N5 (5nm class) production node. This will immediately make complex processors like GPUs and smartphone SoCs more expensive, which will make devices like graphics cards and handsets costlier. Meanwhile, prohibitively high costs will make multi-chiplet designs more appealing.

One wafer processed on TSMC's leading edge N3 manufacturing technology will cost over $20,000 according to
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(via
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). By contrast, an N5 wafer costs around $16,000, the report says.

There are many reasons why making chips on N5 and N3 production nodes is expensive. First up, both technologies use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography pretty extensively for up to 14 layers in N5 and even more with N3. Each EUV tool costs $150 million, and multiple EUV scanners have to be installed in a fab, which means additional costs for TSMC. Also, it takes a long time to produce chips on N5 and N3, which again means higher costs for TSMC.

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alleged wafer pricing
Price per Wafer$20,000$16,000$10,000$6,000$3,000$2,600$2,000
NodeN3N5N7N10N2840nm90nm
Year2022202020182016201420082004

Interesting the price between 90nm and 28nm, just 67%, despite being 10 years difference.
VS other nodes like 5nm and 28nm, a whopping 533% increase in just 6 years.
We are reaching the limits of Moore's Law.
Hmm

I see a very spicy price tag for a wafer of 2 nm. High-NA EUV, GAAFET, hybrid via metallization, etc... That's a lot of technologies to introduce in a single node. It will be spicy.
 

ansy1968

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How can they charge so much when new competition is coming up rapidly?
Bro at 2nm TSMC is a monopoly, IF the reported 3nm will be done at their Arizona FAB together with 5nm, expect the cost to escalate. It's a godsend for the Return of the King as Iphone and other American product will be out of reach for the ordinary consumer, the golden billion is a myth, only a third can afford such expensive overhype American products. :p
 

henrik

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Bro at 2nm TSMC is a monopoly, IF the reported 3nm will be done at their Arizona FAB together with 5nm, expect the cost to escalate. It's a godsend for the Return of the King as Iphone and other American product will be out of reach for the ordinary consumer, the golden billion is a myth, only a third can afford such expensive overhype American products. :p

What type of applications will be using 2nm, when the costs will be super high?
 
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