Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
xypher said:
Does any of the links mention the 28 nm DUV machine or they are related to other products?
Click to expand...
They usually don't post details. A lot of advance packaging is done in Guangdong and in Hunan there is a lot power semiconductors manufacturing, Sanan is there. The weirdest one is the third, a project in Shanghai.
SMEE immersion machines are part project 02, so this are contract machines, so i don't think this there will be bidding for the 28nm machine, those machines will be just delivered. A bidding will mean that SMEE will have to compete with the heavy weights ASML and Nikon and at this stage of development is not possible.
 
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Li Li Auto's models, Li Li L7 and Li Li L8, will be officially launched, and will be available in Max and Pro versions respectively. Among them, the Ideal L8 Pro has become the first model in the world to use Horizon Journey 5. The L7 Pro will also be equipped with Horizon Journey 5, while the Ideal L8 Max and L7 Max will be equipped with NVIDIA Orin-X chips. This also means that in the field of large computing power chips for autonomous driving, Horizon Journey 5 has officially started to compete with NVIDIA Orin chips on the same stage.

908277558093.705344344780730.5834.jpg


On this track, Horizon Journey 5 is comparable to Nvidia's Orin. Since its release in July last year, Journey 5 has been favored by more and more OEMs. There are BYD, SAIC, FAW Hongqi, Ziyoujia, etc.

At present, Horizon has released and mass-produced three generations of automotive chips - Journey 2, Journey 3, and Journey 5. Since Journey 2 was launched in June 2020, and Journey 3 was launched in May last year, more than 1.5 million chips have been shipped so far, and the three generations of chips have quickly refreshed the speed of mass production from the entire release to mass production.

1664578920337.png

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
What gives? and they're trying to increase investment and massive expansion with underutilized capacity? should the investment center in China instead rather than in the US? I'm not an economist BUT even with a feeble brain can understand its a recipe for disaster.

South Korea slashes chip production for first time in over 4 years​

AK_chp_300922.jpg

Semiconductor production slid 1.7 per cent in August from a year earlier. PHOTO: BLOOMBERG

PUBLISHED

SEP 30, 2022, 8:50 AM SGT

SEOUL - South Korea's semiconductor output fell for the first time in more than four years in a sign that chipmakers are bracing for a slowdown in global demand.
Semiconductor production slid 1.7 per cent in August from a year earlier, a sharp reversal from the 17.3 per cent gain reported in July, Statistics Korea data showed on Friday.
The first fall in output since January 2018 coincides with chip inventories soaring 67.3 per cent, suggesting that producers are adjusting to a deteriorating international outlook.

Factory shipments also fell for a second consecutive month in August, dropping 20.4 per cent, the statistics office said.
The three indicators offer the latest evidence that the global economy is headed towards a downturn, led by cooling electronics demand that has been a major source of economic growth.
In the United States,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The company said it was acting swiftly to cope with the weakening demand, including slowing production.


Earlier this month, South Korea's Samsung Electronics also warned of a gloomy outlook for the second half of the year. The market for dynamic random access memory, or Dram, Samsung's key cash driver, is tumbling so fast that it halved in size between May and July, according to IC Insights.

Chipmaking is the biggest industrial sector in South Korea's trade-reliant economy, which is battling high energy prices and a currency that has depreciated the most in Asia this year apart from the yen. BLOOMBERG
 
H

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
What gives? and they're trying to increase investment and massive expansion with underutilized capacity? should the investment center in China instead rather than in the US? I'm not an economist BUT even with a feeble brain can understand its a recipe for disaster.

South Korea slashes chip production for first time in over 4 years​

AK_chp_300922.jpg

Semiconductor production slid 1.7 per cent in August from a year earlier. PHOTO: BLOOMBERG

PUBLISHED

SEP 30, 2022, 8:50 AM SGT

SEOUL - South Korea's semiconductor output fell for the first time in more than four years in a sign that chipmakers are bracing for a slowdown in global demand.
Semiconductor production slid 1.7 per cent in August from a year earlier, a sharp reversal from the 17.3 per cent gain reported in July, Statistics Korea data showed on Friday.
The first fall in output since January 2018 coincides with chip inventories soaring 67.3 per cent, suggesting that producers are adjusting to a deteriorating international outlook.

Factory shipments also fell for a second consecutive month in August, dropping 20.4 per cent, the statistics office said.
The three indicators offer the latest evidence that the global economy is headed towards a downturn, led by cooling electronics demand that has been a major source of economic growth.
In the United States,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The company said it was acting swiftly to cope with the weakening demand, including slowing production.


Earlier this month, South Korea's Samsung Electronics also warned of a gloomy outlook for the second half of the year. The market for dynamic random access memory, or Dram, Samsung's key cash driver, is tumbling so fast that it halved in size between May and July, according to IC Insights.

Chipmaking is the biggest industrial sector in South Korea's trade-reliant economy, which is battling high energy prices and a currency that has depreciated the most in Asia this year apart from the yen. BLOOMBERG
Click to expand...

With YMTC, CXMT and boe wrecking them, they are still increasing investments in the US?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
An addendum, I'm not a religious person in fact I'm one of its sceptic, BUT certainly there is a invisible hand helping the Chinese, this Semiconductor downturn may last 2 years, heck with massive investment in extra capacity it may last even longer. It will give China the benefit of time to increase her production capabilities and core tech development. The prophesied Made in China 2025 is happening and is accelerating right before our own eyes. Five years ago (2017) I never expected it to happen this fast in fact I despair for what happen to Huawei, now I'm a certified fanboy with large dose of optimism. ;) And it had become a habit of mine to speculate cause China always deliver and the satisfaction one's get when proven right.:D
 
FriedButter

FriedButter

Major
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
An addendum, I'm not a religious person in fact I'm one of its sceptic, BUT certainly there is a invisible hand helping the Chinese, this Semiconductor downturn may last 2 years, heck with massive investment in extra capacity it may last even longer. It will give China the benefit of time to increase her production capabilities and core tech development.
Click to expand...

Well there is the localization demand. Domestic chip companies are in a position where a downturn shouldn’t be hugely problematic due to the demand to find an alternative that isn’t dependent on the whims of the West. It would have been a lot more difficult if relations had normalized under Biden but that’s an irrelevant story.
 
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
An addendum, I'm not a religious person in fact I'm one of its sceptic, BUT certainly there is a invisible hand helping the Chinese, this Semiconductor downturn may last 2 years, heck with massive investment in extra capacity it may last even longer. It will give China the benefit of time to increase her production capabilities and core tech development. The prophesied Made in China 2025 is happening and is accelerating right before our own eyes. Five years ago (2017) I never expected it to happen this fast in fact I despair for what happen to Huawei, now I'm a certified fanboy with large dose of optimism. ;) And it had become a habit of mine to speculate cause China always deliver and the satisfaction one's get when proven right.:D
Click to expand...
Yeah, is called the invisible hand of the market. The Chinese goverment is maybe putting the money but the Americans hawks restrictions , blacklisting and export controls is messing up with "the market equilibrium" from one were there was high demand for U.S. products to one were the demand has shifted to Chinese companies scrambling to secure their supply chains due the F.U.D. that this U.S restrictions has caused. Without the Huawei, ZTE and the other U.S. hawk politicians made crap show, this thread would had been a lot shorter, the words "localization" and "solving the stuck on the neck problem" wouldn't have been in every single Chinese company annual financial report, no talks about EDA, or equipment, GPUs, no nothing and nobody would have questioned the monopolies U.S. high tech companies in China for decades to come, due Chinese preference for those products.
I don't know what it is dude, but this law school undergrads national security lunatics have an innate ability of f*ck everything up. Is like they really don't have try hard to blowback themselves up.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
tokenanalyst said:
Yeah, is called the invisible hand of the market. The Chinese goverment is maybe putting the money but the Americans hawks restrictions , blacklisting and export controls is messing up with "the market equilibrium" from one were there was high demand for U.S. products to one were the demand has shifted to Chinese companies scrambling to secure their supply chains due the F.U.D. that this U.S restrictions has caused. Without the Huawei, ZTE and the other U.S. hawk politicians made crap show, this thread would had been a lot shorter, the words "localization" and "solving the stuck on the neck problem" wouldn't have been in every single Chinese company annual financial report, no talks about EDA, or equipment, GPUs, no nothing and nobody would have questioned the monopolies U.S. high tech companies in China for decades to come, due Chinese preference for those products.
I don't know what it is dude, but this law school undergrads national security lunatics have an innate ability of f*ck everything up. Is like they really don't have try hard to blowback themselves up.
Click to expand...
And I'm thankful, without them I'll never know and interacted with such esteem members like yourself and others. It's such a journey that I'll never forget and perfect timing too with the pandemic and all...lol
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
tokenanalyst said:
Li Li Auto's models, Li Li L7 and Li Li L8, will be officially launched, and will be available in Max and Pro versions respectively. Among them, the Ideal L8 Pro has become the first model in the world to use Horizon Journey 5. The L7 Pro will also be equipped with Horizon Journey 5, while the Ideal L8 Max and L7 Max will be equipped with NVIDIA Orin-X chips. This also means that in the field of large computing power chips for autonomous driving, Horizon Journey 5 has officially started to compete with NVIDIA Orin chips on the same stage.

On this track, Horizon Journey 5 is comparable to Nvidia's Orin. Since its release in July last year, Journey 5 has been favored by more and more OEMs. There are BYD, SAIC, FAW Hongqi, Ziyoujia, etc.

At present, Horizon has released and mass-produced three generations of automotive chips - Journey 2, Journey 3, and Journey 5. Since Journey 2 was launched in June 2020, and Journey 3 was launched in May last year, more than 1.5 million chips have been shipped so far, and the three generations of chips have quickly refreshed the speed of mass production from the entire release to mass production.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Li Auto has been a pretty loyal Journey client. I have a chart up on the NEV thread. Horizon Robotics got most of the Chinese automakers cornered. They are going to be a great success. Before long, Qualcomm and Nvidia won't be competitive in this industry anymore. Not boasting, but China's overwhelming demand here + other IC bans has forces Chinese automakers to make horizon robotics as successful as possible.

I think this article doesn't do justice in saying journey 5 has been favored by more and more OEMS. Every important Chinese automakers have pretty much partnered up with them. You can see it on their website. Most recently, Chery picked Journey 3 for its cars.

ansy1968 said:
What gives? and they're trying to increase investment and massive expansion with underutilized capacity? should the investment center in China instead rather than in the US? I'm not an economist BUT even with a feeble brain can understand its a recipe for disaster.

South Korea slashes chip production for first time in over 4 years​


Earlier this month, South Korea's Samsung Electronics also warned of a gloomy outlook for the second half of the year. The market for dynamic random access memory, or Dram, Samsung's key cash driver, is tumbling so fast that it halved in size between May and July, according to IC Insights.

Chipmaking is the biggest industrial sector in South Korea's trade-reliant economy, which is battling high energy prices and a currency that has depreciated the most in Asia this year apart from the yen. BLOOMBERG
Click to expand...
It will be interesting to see what happens to Samsung and TSMC's fabs in America. I assume they have to go through with it. However, both companies will be seeing under utilization pressures in the next couple of years. It's been reported that China import 43 billion fewer chips in the first 7 months of this year and its export increased by 2 folds. They've now reached 1 billion chip a day in production. So yes, China ramping up production is going to be a huge problem for all the companies that relied on importing to China. This worldwide demand drop has now cut down any Chinese expansion plans from what I can see. That means they will be able to gain market share the next couple of years. Power/auto sectors will see more purchases of Chinese IGBTs. Chinese phone and computer companies will buy more DRAMs and flash memory from CXMT and YMTC.

The Koreans have already warned that their semiconductor industry is entirely reliant on Chinese sales and supply chain. Hopefully, TSMC and Mediatek will be at the same position in a couple of years. Again, this is the most opportune time for China to be importing talents from rest of the world.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
tokenanalyst said:
Yeah, is called the invisible hand of the market. The Chinese goverment is maybe putting the money but the Americans hawks restrictions , blacklisting and export controls is messing up with "the market equilibrium" from one were there was high demand for U.S. products to one were the demand has shifted to Chinese companies scrambling to secure their supply chains due the F.U.D. that this U.S restrictions has caused. Without the Huawei, ZTE and the other U.S. hawk politicians made crap show, this thread would had been a lot shorter, the words "localization" and "solving the stuck on the neck problem" wouldn't have been in every single Chinese company annual financial report, no talks about EDA, or equipment, GPUs, no nothing and nobody would have questioned the monopolies U.S. high tech companies in China for decades to come, due Chinese preference for those products.
I don't know what it is dude, but this law school undergrads national security lunatics have an innate ability of f*ck everything up. Is like they really don't have try hard to blowback themselves up.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. Without these... genius revolutionaries, shall I say... My most ambitious hope for China would've been another South Korea. Making chips for others, maybe some design for domestic or internal use, a few tools, but not comprehensive, because in lithography everyone obviously depends on ASML, EDA is low margin anyways, etc.

But now they woke the beast and it is unprecedented the degree of independence that Chinese semiconductor industry is aiming for. Literally without precedent, since even Japan never had a strong semiconductor industry in EDA and CPU design and even US lacks lithography and doesn't have scale in display, power, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top