Chinese semiconductor industry

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Orthan

Senior Member
Unfortunately there has been no updated news about the EUVL development recently. Dont known why. Even the usual reliable sources have nothing new to report.

Its going to take a long time for china to develop something like that. You cant do this in a day. Perhabs thats why that there havent been any recent news.

Who are the Americans going to attack (with sanctions), when they cannot find the enemy?

enemy? the US has already largely crippled huawei. They are out of the US and india markets, largely out of the european and japanese markets. Its going to be tough for huawei in the future.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
the US has already largely crippled huawei. They are out of the US and india markets, largely out of the european and japanese markets. Its going to be tough for huawei in the future.
Only if you think short term cellphone earnings are the most important. But from the tech standpoint and the standpoint of a company doing something for its country rather than just sucking money, the US has simply taught Huawei a lesson. It is a painful one, but it is not a crippling or life-threatening one because Huawei's core technology (the 5G technology that actually threatens Western dominance) is essentially out of America's reach. America only slapped Huawei's cellphone hand, the one that used to assemble foreign parts to make profit. For this, the US has ensured that Huawei transforms into a Chinese Samsung (a national champion that develops tech ecosystems) instead of a Chinese Apple (a company that assembles foreign parts to make money). This transformation is no doubt tough, but China specializes in tough obstacles what development is worth it if it wasn't tough? Any low tech little country, "perhabs" even Portugal, could have those.
 
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horse

Major
Registered Member
Only if you think short term cellphone earnings are the most important. But from the tech standpoint and the standpoint of a company doing something for its country rather than just sucking money, the US has simply taught Huawei a lesson. It is a painful one, but it is not a crippling or life-threatening one because Huawei's core technology (the 5G technology that actually threatens Western dominance) is essentially out of America's reach. America only slapped Huawei's cellphone hand, the one that used to assemble foreign parts to make profit. For this, the US has ensured that Huawei transforms into a Chinese Samsung (a national champion that develops tech ecosystems) instead of a Chinese Apple (a company that assembles foreign parts to make money). This transformation is no doubt tough, but China specializes in tough obstacles what development is worth it if it wasn't tough? Any low tech little country like Portugal could have those.

Facts, not propaganda. That's China!

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horse

Major
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Yes, but Mr.SmallTimeSchadenfreude @Orthan is talking about the expected drop in cellphone sales. It's a bruise and it's unpleasant but it does nothing except to make Huawei go the Samsung route, which is probably the last thing that the US was hoping for.
We do not know what the US government is doing with the cell phones and Huawei bans.

Simply put, it is kind of really dumb.

Five years ago, where was Huawei cell phones? Low end, not much of anything.

Today, the very best cell phone, the Mate-X, the best in the world.

Five years from now, we can be sure that Huawei phones will retain market share, Huawei brand name will be near the top of the list, Huawei will have their own cell phone O/S breaking the current US monopoly on cell phone O/S.

Whatever the US government is doing, well, keep doing it!

They gave away an US monopoly, and Trump got nothing in return. Everyone is going to miss Trump!

:p
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
We do not know what the US government is doing with the cell phones and Huawei bans.

Simply put, it is kind of really dumb.

Five years ago, where was Huawei cell phones? Low end, not much of anything.

Today, the very best cell phone, the Mate-X, the best in the world.

Five years from now, we can be sure that Huawei phones will retain market share, Huawei brand name will be near the top of the list, Huawei will have their own cell phone O/S breaking the current US monopoly on cell phone O/S.

Whatever the US government is doing, well, keep doing it!

They gave away an US monopoly, and Trump got nothing in return. Everyone is going to miss Trump!

:p
Hi horse,

Bro , It's an extortion, Trump needed money to fund his campaign at that time.

from cnTechPost

Huawei reportedly restarts production of 4G phones, will be available in H1 2021 at the earliest
2020-11-25 7:53:40 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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4fe93426a3ee319af68c04ea0e90fae6.PNG

New orders for Huawei's 4G handsets are already being stocked,
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quoted an unnamed Huawei supplier as saying, adding that Huawei is currently placing orders in small batches on a rolling basis, and there is no way to estimate the exact volume of orders.
The supplier said that according to the rhythm of the order shipment, the finished products are expected to be available in the first half of next year, and the earliest in the first quarter.

Recent reports suggest that Huawei is actively ordering 4G smartphones and related terminal components from suppliers, and that some component makers have been notified that they will resume buying motherboards and other components this month.
The report quoted Huawei employees as saying that the supply of 4G chips could address the demand for handsets and tablets in most overseas regions, which would preserve the channel in major overseas regions for future re-emergence opportunities.

"Currently, Eastern Europe, Russia, Asia Pacific, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America are still 4G markets, and some regions only offer 4G networks, and 4G products are still competitive."
In terms of licensing, the only vendor that can provide 4G chips for Huawei is currently Qualcomm.

On November 4, Qualcomm said in its fiscal fourth-quarter earnings report that it had received $1.8 billion in patent fees from Huawei. Qualcomm President Cristiano Amon said at the earnings conference that Huawei has created an opportunity to expand the potential market for Qualcomm's mobile chip business (QCT). If we can get a license to sell to Huawei, it would be an entirely positive opportunity.
A week ago, a Qualcomm spokesperson said that it had obtained licenses for some of Huawei's products, including some 4G products.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi horse,

Bro , It's an extortion, Trump needed money to fund his campaign at that time.

from cnTechPost

Huawei reportedly restarts production of 4G phones, will be available in H1 2021 at the earliest
2020-11-25 7:53:40 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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0

4fe93426a3ee319af68c04ea0e90fae6.PNG

New orders for Huawei's 4G handsets are already being stocked,
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quoted an unnamed Huawei supplier as saying, adding that Huawei is currently placing orders in small batches on a rolling basis, and there is no way to estimate the exact volume of orders.
The supplier said that according to the rhythm of the order shipment, the finished products are expected to be available in the first half of next year, and the earliest in the first quarter.

Recent reports suggest that Huawei is actively ordering 4G smartphones and related terminal components from suppliers, and that some component makers have been notified that they will resume buying motherboards and other components this month.
The report quoted Huawei employees as saying that the supply of 4G chips could address the demand for handsets and tablets in most overseas regions, which would preserve the channel in major overseas regions for future re-emergence opportunities.

"Currently, Eastern Europe, Russia, Asia Pacific, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America are still 4G markets, and some regions only offer 4G networks, and 4G products are still competitive."
In terms of licensing, the only vendor that can provide 4G chips for Huawei is currently Qualcomm.

On November 4, Qualcomm said in its fiscal fourth-quarter earnings report that it had received $1.8 billion in patent fees from Huawei. Qualcomm President Cristiano Amon said at the earnings conference that Huawei has created an opportunity to expand the potential market for Qualcomm's mobile chip business (QCT). If we can get a license to sell to Huawei, it would be an entirely positive opportunity.
A week ago, a Qualcomm spokesperson said that it had obtained licenses for some of Huawei's products, including some 4G products.
Looks like this Huawei Phone slated to launch in 2021 will be the first phone to use the new Harmony OS.
There is still a large Market for 4G phones in many parts of the World and especially in developing regions like Africa, South America, South Asia etc.
This will be the perfect Phone Model to promote the Harmony OS.
Huawei has to build up a Ecosystem around Harmony OS.
Harmony OS already has its own Search Engine, Navigation, App Store etc.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
From what I've understand Huawei had develop an EDA for 7nm chips, also SMEE and other China IC equipment maker need to develop their own set of EDA tool to run their equipment?

FROM Beidou2020 (pakistan defense forum)
China aims to shake US grip on chip design tools
Synopsys and Cadence veterans join local startups amid Beijing tech push

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F1%2F1%2F5%2F8%2F30818511-3-eng-GB%2F%E5%90%8D%E7%A7%B0%E6%9C%AA%E8%A8%AD%E5%AE%9A%202.jpg


Chinese startups are recruiting from Synopsys and Cadence in bid to break the American grip on chip design tools. (Source photos by AP)

CHENG TING-FANG and LAULY LI, Nikkei staff writersNovember 25, 2020 11:58 JST
TAIPEI -- Veteran engineers and high-level executives are leaving top U.S. chip design toolmakers for Chinese rivals as Beijing looks to break America's near monopoly on this key segment of the semiconductor industry.

Three Chinese startups established since September last year were founded by or have hired executives and engineers from Synopsys and Cadence Design Systems of the U.S., the world's two biggest makers of electronic design automation (EDA) tools, as such software is known.

These startups include Nanjing-based X-Epic, Shanghai Hejian Industrial Software, and Hefei-based Advanced Manufacturing EDA Co., or Amedac, in which Synopsys owns a stake.

The push to recruit U.S. chip tool talent comes as Washington's crackdown on Huawei Technologies
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in China's chipmaking ecosystem, including in EDA tools, which are used to design integrated circuits, printed circuit boards and other electronic systems.

America has long dominated the segment, with Synopsys, Cadence, Mentor Graphics and Ansys controlling some 90% of the global market for EDA tools. Mentor was taken over by Siemens in 2017 but maintains extensive research and development operations in the U.S. These four companies own much of the intellectual property needed for chip development, and count the world's top chip developers as clients, including Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, Nvidia, Micron and Huawei.

China's own EDA tools industry, by contrast, has been largely neglected until recently. Its two main homegrown players, state-owned Empyrean Software founded in 2009, and Beijing-based Cellixsoft, in 2002, are still unable to match the offerings of Synopsys and Cadence. Jinan-based Primarius Technologies, founded by former a senior Cadence executive in 2010, is likewise still struggling to catch up to its American rivals.

A wake-up call came last year when the U.S. Department of Commerce banned Huawei, the world's biggest telecom equipment maker, from receiving software updates and technical support from American EDA tool makers without U.S. approval.

This move
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the capability of Huawei's chip design arm Hisilicon Technologies, as close cooperation with EDA tool providers is essential given the increasing complexity of chipmaking processes, and spurred China to act.

"We are seeing more and more people who previously worked with big U.S. chip design tool companies joining startups because they think it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," said a source from a China-based chip developer and Synopsys client.
"Previously very few people would want to start up a chip design tool company, because it's a very niche market already dominated by huge players, but now they see growing customer demands for local software in China for the very first time."

That new demand has led to the launch of at least three startups.

X-Epic, based in Nanjing, was founded in March by Wang Libin, a former regional sales manager at Synopsys, according to company data. TC Lin, former vice president of Cadence with more than 30 years' experience in EDA tools, joined the company as its chief scientist on Aug. 3.

X-Epic announced early this month that Tiyen Yen, another Cadence veteran, will join the company as vice president of R&D.

Shanghai Hejian Industrial Software, founded in May, hired a high-ranking, China-based R&D executive from Synopsys in late October, according to two sources familiar with the matter. The executive worked for the U.S. company for nearly two decades, they said.

Shanghai Hejian Industrial Software is backed by the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission Of Shanghai Municipal Government and renowned Chinese venture capital firm Summitview Capital, according to online disclosures by the company.

The third startup, Amedac, was founded in September by Chieh Ni, a former vice president of Synopsys China who worked with the U.S. company for 10 years. Synopsys, moreover, holds a more than 20% stake in the startup and Ge Qun, global senior vice president at Synopsys and chairman of its China operations, serves as one of the board directors at Amedac. Other key investors of Amedac include Summitview Capital, and the state-owned Institute of Microelectronics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

Willy Shih, a professor of management practice at the Harvard Business School, said Synopsys and Cadence dominate the market because they can "lock in" their client base. Switching to an alternative provider is difficult, he said, because design tools are closely linked to existing chip process flows.

"Now China's motivation, of course, is access for Chinese firms to these critical tools. So of course they will want homegrown tools not subject to the whims of a U.S. administration. ... Given enough time and money, they could probably develop alternatives, but it won't be easy," Shih told Nikkei Asia.

"With the U.S. and China locked in a prolonged tech war, the whole Chinese tech industry is aware of the significant insufficiencies in some areas [of chipmaking] and they definitely want to build their own versions of chip design software to replace current ones," said a source at a company that works with with both Synopsys and Cadence. "Synopsys knows it will lose some market share in China in the long run due to the Washington-Beijing tensions, so it wants to also hold stakes in some of these potential Chinese rivals to secure the market."

Synopsys set up a $100 million strategic investment fund for the Chinese market in 2017 to "expand engagement" with the booming Chinese chip design community --the world's largest and fastest-growing market has more than 1,600 chip designers. The same year, Cadence decided to build a China semiconductor hub in Nanjing to better serve local clients and foster engineering talent. The company pledged to invest 100 million yuan ($15.2 million) in the project over the years.

Synopsys said at the time that the strategic fund, operated and managed by its China unit, was designed to collaborate with local companies and venture capital in investing in the areas of chip designs, artificial intelligence, cloud-computing, software security and EDA tools.

"The China strategic investment fund is an important milestone of our China strategy and it represents Synopsys' confidence and commitment to the Chinese market," Synopsys President and co-CEO Chi-foon Chan said in a press release in 2017.

It is not uncommon for foreign companies to forge deeper ties with local partners via investments or joint-ventures in order to expand their presence in the Chinese market. Such ventures do not always bear fruit, however.
 

ansy1968

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Registered Member
continue....

Intel's venture capital arm, Intel Capital, invested in three Chinese chip-related unicorns in May, having previously paid $1.5 billion for a 20% stake in a subsidiary of Tsinghua Unigroup, a Beijing-based chip conglomerate. The partnership between the world's biggest PC microprocessor maker and Tsinghua Unigroup's mobile chip unit UNISOC to develop 5G modems
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after just one year of collaboration.

U.S. chip developers Qualcomm and AMD also formed joint-ventures with local companies to expand in the Chinese market, but these too
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.

"If companies like Synopsys and Cadence invest in Chinese partners, it is a way to stay in the market and keep those players close to them," Harvard Business School's Shih said. "'Stay close to your friends, stay closer to your enemies' is one quote that comes to mind."

In the event trade tensions die down one day, buying back some day, buying back stakes in their Chinese joint partners could be an option, he added.

Synopsys declined to say whether it has expanded the scale of the fund over the years or if investing in Chinese peers is part of the scope that fund, nor did it comment on the talent exodus in China. Cadence did not respond to Nikkei Asia's request for comments.

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Synopsys and Cadence veterans join local startups amid Beijing tech push
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