Chinese OS and software ecosystem

daifo

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
sndef888 said:
Haven't been keeping up with OS news for a while

i just found out HarmonyOS next version is not going to support android apps

What's the future in terms of its use? Are other smartphone vendors going to offer harmonyos phones as well?
Seems like a tall hill to climb if it's going to be a closed system only used by Huawei. Will developers really support it?
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I believe the have open source a version called OpenHarmony Next. The problem with major Chinese vendor would be that the US to go crazy unhinge and try to sanction them as well for even moving off some of their devices off rule-based-order Android. Maybe they will have to start a new company or have China be in a state of being able to produce chips at a comfortable volume.

My guess and heard rumors that Android apps can run in a vm or container. I believe Huawei is behind the startup company that has an app/container that is allowing the play store run on Huawei phones at the moment. Since the phones are coming with 12-16 gig or ram... user experience should be fine for most apps and even lower intensive games. ChromeOS and various Chinese linux distros are doing this allready as well.
 
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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
The greatest challenge to Chinese software historically has been over seas expansion. The failures of Tencent and Baidu to capture global market share - outside of Tencent's purchases of foreign gaming companies - and their complacency to dominate domestically are by now a popular joke on the Chinese speaking internet. Outside of e-commerce, China really didn't have much success creating a global software ecosystem during the 2010s internet boom. It even lost the messaging software war in East Asia to the Japanese subsidiary of a South Korean company, which now dominates the chat ecosystem of much of Southeast Asia in the form of LINE, while Tencent's QQ and Weixin have been basically contained to China and Chinese speakers.

Fortunately, a new generation of software companies led by Bytedance and Mihoyo are turning the page on software and we can hope that they're not going to repeat the mistakes of Tencent and Baidu. The fact that Bytedance have gotten the US to go after them is a promising indication, and I have seen Chinese software companies improve leaps and bounds in their localization and global marketing capabilities. While people complain about first move advantage in software platforms, due to the fast moving nature of the industry, there are always new opportunities to turn the table on existing players.

If China wants protection from Western sanctions, it is imperative that it builds up its own global ecosystem and capture a much larger % of the Global South market share than it currently has. Only then can you effectively defend against platform based sanctions and make them more punishing to the countries using them. Just imagine if, instead of LINE or WhatsApp, the world outside of China and the West used Chinese messaging software; an US platform ban would then cause much more global resistance.
 
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sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Eventine said:
The greatest challenge to Chinese software historically has been over seas expansion. The failures of Tencent and Baidu to capture global market share - outside of Tencent's purchases of foreign gaming companies - and their complacency to dominate domestically are by now a popular joke on the Chinese speaking internet. Outside of e-commerce, China really didn't have much success creating a global software ecosystem during the 2010s internet boom. It even lost the messaging software war in East Asia to the Japanese subsidiary of a South Korean company, which now dominates the chat ecosystem of much of Southeast Asia in the form of LINE, while Tencent's QQ and Weixin have been basically contained to China and Chinese speakers.

Fortunately, a new generation of software companies led by Bytedance and Mihoyo are turning the page on software and we can hope that they're not going to repeat the mistakes of Tencent and Baidu. The fact that Bytedance have gotten the US to go after them is a promising indication, and I have seen Chinese software companies improve leaps and bounds in their localization and global marketing capabilities. While people complain about first move advantage in software platforms, due to the fast moving nature of the industry, there are always new opportunities to turn the table on existing players.

If China wants protection from Western sanctions, it is imperative that it builds up its own global ecosystem and capture a much larger % of the Global South market share than it currently has. Only then can you effectively defend against platform based sanctions and make them more punishing to the countries using them. Just imagine if, instead of LINE or WhatsApp, the world outside of China and the West used Chinese messaging software; an US platform ban would then cause much more global resistance.
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I don't get why Chinese companies rarely do overseas M&A even when it would be clearly beneficial.

Imagine Tencent buying Line and integrating WeChat pay etc
 
coolgod

coolgod

Major
Registered Member
sndef888 said:
I don't get why Chinese companies rarely do overseas M&A even when it would be clearly beneficial.

Imagine Tencent buying Line and integrating WeChat pay etc
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Who said Chinese companies don't do M&A, just at Tencent's gaming profolio. With the rampant Sinophobic western media, I doubt Chinese tech companies could have dominated SEA communications market.

Remember Line is owned by Naver, which is guaranteed to be backdoored by the CIA. You think the west would just let China own the major communications platform in SEA?
 
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Tianxiang

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Back on the subject of HarmonyOS Next - It seems like Huawei is definitely moving in an Apple-like direction and we can expect that eventually all their devices will be powered by their homegrown OS and designed to integrate it smoothly.

Huawei has talked a lot about how they're making it easy for developers to move their apps to the new Android-free OS and already around 5000 apps are ready for the OS.

As a gamer who also does some light game development, one thing I wonder, and maybe some people here who have more insider knowledge can shine a light on, is Huawei's attitude toward open standards. One thing that Apple is notorious about is their abysmal support of open graphics APIs (OpenGL, Vulkan) and that adds a thick layer of difficulty to porting games for its devices.

What are the odds that Huawei's new devices will support the Vulkan API (or spearhead another open standard)?

I imagine they realize that ease of porting software to their new OS is crucial to really start building up that app library.
 
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Huawei Pura 70 supports Vulkan. But it seems like the current drivers aren't that efficient. Seems to be faster with OpenGL.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
sndef888 said:
I don't get why Chinese companies rarely do overseas M&A even when it would be clearly beneficial.

Imagine Tencent buying Line and integrating WeChat pay etc
Click to expand...
Not software, but Haier bought GE appliances which is absolutely a huge acquisition in terms of assets and costs
The renewed focus on appliances has been good for the company
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You also had the acquisition of Volvo by Geely back in the day.

One of the reasons Chinese companies are not seeking too many overseas M&A is because there is so much growth still within China. You look at something like the EV industry, basically dominated by domestic players.

The tech industry in China is in a constant state of flux. Alibaba is the big dog yesterday, but everyone is on PDD today. Baidu always seems like a follower despite being the leader in Chinese search. Huawei is in deep a few years ago, but looks stronger than ever right now.
 
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yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
sndef888 said:
I don't get why Chinese companies rarely do overseas M&A even when it would be clearly beneficial.

Imagine Tencent buying Line and integrating WeChat pay etc
Click to expand...
China in the 2010s heavily relied on foreign M&A almost to a fault. Struggles with oversea expansion is primarily due to local regulations and hostile policy from foreign countries imo.

See Grindr, who was acquired by a Chinese company and divested in the face of anti-Chinese regulation.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
yungho said:
China in the 2010s heavily relied on foreign M&A almost to a fault. Struggles with oversea expansion is primarily due to local regulations and hostile policy from foreign countries imo.

See Grindr, who was acquired by a Chinese company and divested in the face of anti-Chinese regulation.
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There were a few waves. There were the mid 00's, there were many failures, mostly because organizations were not ready to absorb acquisitions (ie. SsangYong).

The 10's were met with more success, but things got out of control due to easy loans (ie. Wanda group)

I always suspected Grindr was forced to be divested due to the (IMO somewhat reasonable) fear of Chinese intelligence services getting blackmail material on US public figures/politicians, although this was not the publicly stated reason.
 
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