Chinese Martial Arts Thread


SDWatcher

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Interstitium could be the basis of acupuncture and qi?

"The interstitium is seen here beneath the top layer of skin but is also in tissue layers lining the gut, lungs and urinary systems, as well as those surrounding blood vessels and the fascia between muscles."

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solarz

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Personally, I have experienced a great deal of increase in my aggression since I started training in Muay Thai (at MMA gyms). When I was young, I was reticent and avoided confrontation, but since training for years, I have felt more and more confidence to always get the other side to capitulate (although it has never actually come to blows). Just last month in NYC, a thug on the subway cursed at my friend for holding onto a rail support in front of the thug. My friend's instinct was to apologize and move away. I could not bring myself to. I told him I'd stand wherever I please. He threatened to punch me in the face and I immediately lost my mind. I told him in public I'd be happy to murder him in the train with everyone looking if he'd only throw the first punch. He backed down and I continued to antagonize him, following him to the other end of the train and putting my hand inches away from his face. I told him he was a coward if he didn't swing at me like he promised. When he ran away again with his back turned, I yelled at him for being a loser. This whole time, people in the subway were telling me to leave him alone and to stop provoking him. My friend told me to stop. I didn't care. I wanted to beat the shit out of him and leave him permanently crippled for challenging me. I would have never done that in high school, but MMA training put a crazy button in me. In retrospect, I should not have done that; the legal consequences could have been very damaging to my career had he continued to test me. But since MMA training, whenever challenged, I just see red and next time, I doubt I'll be any better.
Sounds to me you should sign up for some TMA classes. ;)

It also seems to me like MMA training is giving you a false sense of confidence. What if next time, the guy had a gun? All the MMA training in the world wouldn't save you then.
 
manqiangrexue, this is well intent and please don't take it the wrong way. Training is about control of one's mental state as well as physical. Being calm and confident can go a long way in dealing with confrontations than esculating the situation. There were times when the other side were inches from throwing a blow at me. But merely staying tranquil and at ease had already threw them off-guard and hesitated from continuing any aggression. Make no mistake, I was ready to counter with the utmost force. It was probably revealing from the eyes and the body posture. Actual physical contact and any aftermath are just not necessary in this litigatious world.
I understand. My main point is that while traditional martial arts may foster tranquility, peace, confrontation aversion, MMA, at least as practiced in the US, builds aggression and violent tendency. It is not a welcome addition to Chinese society.
Sounds to me you should sign up for some TMA classes. ;)

It also seems to me like MMA training is giving a false sense of confidence. What if next time, the guy had a gun? All the MMA training in the world wouldn't save you then.
Yes, I realize that. Even a knife could have done me in. My mother recommends TaiChi and meditation LOL.
 

SDWatcher

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Chinese TMA is supposedly a domesticated extension of combat tactics in ancient wars or on the street, for which the original emphasis was on weapons and staying upright was an important survival skill, such that practicing stance is an important part of training.

But during the Qing dynasty, weapons were forbidden among the people. So combat tactics were transformed into empty-handed forms. For example, 六合槍法 (Hexa Combination Spear), which was cavalry practicing spear offense on horses, was modified into 心意六合拳 or 形意拳 (Form Intent Fist).

Taking modern Chinese TMA to the ring, presents several problems. First, many Chinese TMA are practicing forms and minor contact. They aren't trained for actual combat to begin with. Second, hit and being hit are essential conditioning for muscle memory, building proper composure and reflex. Third, the mindset of 點到即止 (stop when touched) is more suitable for a sparring game than a fight. Fourth, if it were UFC style, many Chinese TMA aren't equipped for grappling on the ground, because of the origins from ancient wars or on the street.

Which are probably the reasons for 散手 or 散打 (Sanzhou or Sanda), except for grappling on the ground.
 

SDWatcher

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So how should we interpret 熱氣 (Hot Qi) in traditional Chinese medicine? Let's try Hot Qi= Higher Metabolism and see if it makes sense.

Glycemic Index (GI) is a measure of how much carbohydrate-containing food raises blood glucose after a meal. For comparison, the GI of glucose is 100.

Low GI Foods (55 or less)

100% stone-ground whole wheat or pumpernickel bread
Oatmeal (rolled or steel-cut), oat bran, muesli
Pasta, converted rice, barley, bulgar
Sweet potato, corn, yam, lima/butter beans, peas, legumes and lentils
Most fruits, non-starchy vegetables and carrots

High GI Foods (70 or more)

White bread or bagel
Corn flakes, puffed rice, bran flakes, instant oatmeal
Shortgrain white rice, rice pasta, macaroni and cheese from mix
Russet potato, pumpkin
Pretzels, rice cakes, popcorn, saltine crackers
melons and pineapple

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It is interesting to notice that Low GI Foods are more considered as 寒凉 (Cold) and High GI Foods are more considered as 熱氣 (Hot Qi) in traditional Chinese medicine.

And studies have shown that a low glycemic-load diet would improve the symtoms of acne (pimples), also consistent with recommendations in traditional Chinese medicine.

Smith RN, Mann NJ, Braue A, et al. The effect of a high-protein, low glycemic-load diet versus a conventional, high glycemic-load diet on biochemical parameters associated with acne vulgaris: a randomized, investigator-masked, controlled trial. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2007;57:247–256.
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Smith RN, Mann NJ, Braue A, et al. A low-glycemic-load diet improves symptoms in acne vulgaris patients: a randomized controlled trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007;86:107–115.
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Smith RN, Braue A, Varigos GA, et al. The effect of a low glycemic-load diet on acne vulgaris and the fatty acid composition of skin surface triglycerides. J Dermatol Sci. 2008;50:41–52.
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solarz

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Chinese TMA is supposedly a domesticated extension of combat tactics in ancient wars or on the street, for which the original emphasis was on weapons and staying upright was an important survival skill, such that practicing stance is an important part of training.

But during the Qing dynasty, weapons were forbidden among the people. So combat tactics were transformed into empty-handed forms. For example, 六合槍法 (Hexa Combination Spear), which was cavalry practicing spear offense on horses, was modified into 心意六合拳 or 形意拳 (Form Intent Fist).

Taking modern Chinese TMA to the ring, presents several problems. First, many Chinese TMA are practicing forms and minor contact. They aren't trained for actual combat to begin with. Second, hit and being hit are essential conditioning for muscle memory, building proper composure and reflex. Third, the mindset of 點到即止 (stop when touched) is more suitable for a sparring game than a fight. Fourth, if it were UFC style, many Chinese TMA aren't equipped for grappling on the ground, because of the origins from ancient wars or on the street.

Which are probably the reasons for 散手 or 散打 (Sanzhou or Sanda), except for grappling on the ground.
I love Jet Li, and he has a great explanation for what Chinese TMA is today:

 

SDWatcher

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Watched 李連杰 (Jet Li) since 少林寺 (Shaolin Temple) and 黃飛鴻系列 (Once Upon a Time in China Series). He is fabulous on screen, especially before coming to Hollywood. But then movies of 成龍 (Jacky Chan) and 周潤發 (Chow Yun Fat) are also more interesting before coming to Hollywood.
 

Yvrch

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I don't understand why you think individuals untrained in martial arts are powerful, loose cannons while those who are trained become reserved and more likely to be beaten in a fight. It is simply not true. The untrained usually wield very little usable power. The common weakness of the beginner is to be timid and reserved when sparring and combat styles like MMA typically train them to be more aggressive and offensive. Trust me; I know. I've trained for years and one of the most common things I hear the instructor tell beginners, including myself at first, is to have no fear and be aggressive.

Your guy is atypical. Is he old? Does he have kids? The MMA gyms that I've trained at are comprised in large part by aggressive young males in their prime who would not back down from a fight. As far as they were concerned, they trained so they would never have to back down; if they do, everything they did was a waste. The instructor tells us to have control and reserve when sparring each other, but outside, if you are challenged unfairly, don't back down. Don't strike first, but if the other side strikes you, reply without mercy. If he dies, it's his fault for instigating. It's better than holding back and having him kill you. This is very much in line with American philosophy when it comes to self defense, police behavior, etc...

Recently, MMA phenom Conor MacGregor was arrested for assaulting a TOUR BUS. You can search for violent crimes perpetrated by MMA fighters if you want (the list is ugly) but this behavior is very very rare if ever seen in traditional kung fu masters.

Personally, I have experienced a great deal of increase in my aggression since I started training in Muay Thai (at MMA gyms). When I was young, I was reticent and avoided confrontation, but since training for years, I have felt more and more confidence to always get the other side to capitulate (although it has never actually come to blows). Just last month in NYC, a thug on the subway cursed at my friend for holding onto a rail support in front of the thug. My friend's instinct was to apologize and move away. I could not bring myself to. I told him I'd stand wherever I please. He threatened to punch me in the face and I immediately lost my mind. I told him in public I'd be happy to murder him in the train with everyone looking if he'd only throw the first punch. He backed down and I continued to antagonize him, following him to the other end of the train and putting my hand inches away from his face. I told him he was a coward if he didn't swing at me like he promised. When he ran away again with his back turned, I yelled at him for being a loser. This whole time, people in the subway were telling me to leave him alone and to stop provoking him. My friend told me to stop. I didn't care. I wanted to beat the shit out of him and leave him permanently crippled for challenging me. I would have never done that in high school, but MMA training put a crazy button in me. In retrospect, I should not have done that; the legal consequences could have been very damaging to my career had he continued to test me. But since MMA training, whenever challenged, I just see red and next time, I doubt I'll be any better.
LoL you remind me of myself. I like weight training and kick boxing since my teenage years.
For about first 5 years or so I was like you, pumped and ready to go. I even had a few fights. One time I got the guy in the forehead it swelled up like a good inch, with a weird outline of my fist. I was worried he might die LoL.
After 20 years, I never felt challenged or threatened in those situations. I even forgot about the fact that I have learnt these stuff. Annoyed, yes, but not challenged or threatened. I walked away, it didn't matter to me, 'cause all of them looked like an idiot to me LoL.
 
LoL you remind me of myself. I like weight training and kick boxing since my teenage years.
For about first 5 years or so I was like you, pumped and ready to go. I even had a few fights. One time I got the guy in the forehead it swelled up like a good inch, with a weird outline of my fist. I was worried he might die LoL.
After 20 years, I never felt challenged or threatened in those situations. I even forgot about the fact that I have learnt these stuff. Annoyed, yes, but not challenged or threatened. I walked away, it didn't matter to me, 'cause all of them looked like an idiot to me LoL.
Awww man, the good stories I have. One time, my friend, a boxer who is an MD PhD now, was challenged by someone a good 6 inches taller and maybe 40 pounds heavier. Once that guy got aggressive and threatened violence, my friend immediately offered to beat him to a pulp, which shocked the fellow. He backed away and left but my friend chased after him and pushed him to the ground daring him to retaliate. That guy got up and ran. My friend caught him and knocked him unconscious with one punch to the jaw and then continued to pound his lifeless skull as he laid there until I pulled him off. He did this with a circle of the victim's friends looking on, none of them wanting to defend him. And when it was over, my friend snapped to it and we ran as fast as we could because he just realized that if anyone recognized him, he'd be ejected from med school!

My personal funniest story was when I was at a bar playing darts. A drunkard walked into the dart range and I told him to move for his own safety. He took it as a hostility and I said that was fine with me; we can get as crazy as he wanted. His friends apologized for him and took him home but not before he called his sober frat brother to come to the bar and fight me. When that fellow arrived, I accepted his challenge and said we should go to the abandoned playground to fight so no cops would interrupt us. He first agreed but then reneged, saying it was unfair because his stakes were higher as he had a presentation on Monday and could not do it with a busted face. I said it's totally fair because I was just admitted to a PhD program and that offer would be rescinded if we were caught. He then exclaimed that I was crazy to want to risk all that in a fight! So he called it off, we had a beer, and exchanged numbers to become buddies LOLOL

I've never been in a fight, because the people who escalated with me thinking I would back down would deescalate once they saw that I was ready to fight. I've never hit someone full force before, never round-housed someone in the head as hard as I could like I always imagined doing if I got into a real fight. All I have are 10% power strikes to the head and 30-60% power strikes to the body/legs when sparring. Since studying Muay Thai, I learned that people just wanna act tough but nobody wants to fight. Before my training, I would back down to aggressive guys in high school thinking that if I didn't, I'd get my ass handed to me. Now I see people just want to intimidate; they don't wanna find out what you're all about if you're confident.
 
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solarz

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Since studying Muay Thai, I learned that people just wanna act tough but nobody wants to fight. Before my training, I would back down to aggressive guys in high school thinking that if I didn't, I'd get my ass handed to me. Now I see people just want to intimidate; they don't wanna find out what you're all about if you're confident.
What you wrote here reminded me of those animal shows where two lions or gorillas would stare each other down, then one would back away.

It's amazing how much human behavior is still rooted in primal instincts.
 

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